Proposed 1906 Cruiser

[Tanthalas]

Italia HC-1906, Italia Heavy Cruiser laid down 1906 (Engine 1905)

Displacement:
   8,430 t light; 8,808 t standard; 9,850 t normal; 10,684 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   470.00 ft / 470.00 ft x 60.00 ft x 22.00 ft (normal load)
   143.26 m / 143.26 m x 18.29 m  x 6.71 m

Armament:
      6 - 10.00" / 254 mm guns (2x3 guns), 500.00lbs / 226.80kg shells, 1906 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, evenly spread
      12 - 3.00" / 76.2 mm guns in single mounts, 13.50lbs / 6.12kg shells, 1906 Model
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts
     on side, all amidships
      2 - 3.00" / 76.2 mm guns (1x2 guns), 13.50lbs / 6.12kg shells, 1906 Model
     Breech loading guns in a deck mount with hoist
     on centreline aft
      20 - 0.75" / 19.1 mm guns (10x2 guns), 0.21lbs / 0.10kg shells, 1906 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 3,193 lbs / 1,448 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 100

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   8.00" / 203 mm   267.34 ft / 81.49 m   10.00 ft / 3.05 m
   Ends:   4.00" / 102 mm   202.64 ft / 61.76 m   10.00 ft / 3.05 m
   Upper:   4.00" / 102 mm   267.34 ft / 81.49 m   8.00 ft / 2.44 m
     Main Belt covers 88 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   8.00" / 203 mm   4.00" / 102 mm      8.00" / 203 mm
   2nd:   4.00" / 102 mm   2.00" / 51 mm            -
   3rd:   1.00" / 25 mm   1.00" / 25 mm            -

   - Armour deck: 2.00" / 51 mm, Conning tower: 8.00" / 203 mm

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 4 shafts, 19,877 shp / 14,828 Kw = 21.50 kts
   Range 6,600nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1,876 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   493 - 642

Cost:
   £0.862 million / $3.449 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 399 tons, 4.1 %
   Armour: 2,945 tons, 29.9 %
      - Belts: 1,613 tons, 16.4 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 521 tons, 5.3 %
      - Armour Deck: 732 tons, 7.4 %
      - Conning Tower: 79 tons, 0.8 %
   Machinery: 1,656 tons, 16.8 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 3,229 tons, 32.8 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,420 tons, 14.4 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 200 tons, 2.0 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     10,000 lbs / 4,536 Kg = 20.0 x 10.0 " / 254 mm shells or 1.7 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.11
   Metacentric height 2.8 ft / 0.9 m
   Roll period: 15.0 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.52
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.25

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has raised forecastle
   Block coefficient: 0.556
   Length to Beam Ratio: 7.83 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 21.68 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 46 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 56
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      21.00 ft / 6.40 m
      - Forecastle (22 %):   21.00 ft / 6.40 m (12.00 ft / 3.66 m aft of break)
      - Mid (50 %):      12.00 ft / 3.66 m
      - Quarterdeck (22 %):   12.00 ft / 3.66 m
      - Stern:      12.00 ft / 3.66 m
      - Average freeboard:   13.94 ft / 4.25 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 87.5 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 91.7 %
   Waterplane Area: 19,786 Square feet or 1,838 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 102 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 109 lbs/sq ft or 534 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.97
      - Longitudinal: 1.32
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

I gave up 3 guns and came up with this, maybee not an ideal matchup for all my potentnial oponents, but fast enough to outrun what she cant out fight atm.... i think =P

[P3D]

Need at least a few 4-5" guns...

[Tanthalas]

i was thinkin the same thing no 5" kind of hurts her which is why that one already got scraped as impractical.  dont supose anyone wants to sell me some 1909 engines in 1906 on the uhm delayed payment plan ^.^

[P3D]

Drop the last half knots of speed to get some necessary secondary armament. Also, I won't use 10" guns if I have 11" ones.  100t misc weight should be enough. And a few TTs, even if above water for coup-de-grace.

[Tanthalas]

Not Sure what mark im on anymore Version

Italia HC-1906, Italia Heavy Cruiser laid down 1906 (Engine 1905)

Displacement:
   8,447 t light; 8,866 t standard; 9,912 t normal; 10,748 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   470.00 ft / 470.00 ft x 61.00 ft x 22.00 ft (normal load)
   143.26 m / 143.26 m x 18.59 m  x 6.71 m

Armament:
      6 - 10.00" / 254 mm guns (2x3 guns), 500.00lbs / 226.80kg shells, 1906 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, evenly spread
      12 - 5.00" / 127 mm guns in single mounts, 62.50lbs / 28.35kg shells, 1906 Model
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts
     on side, all amidships
      4 - 3.00" / 76.2 mm guns (2x2 guns), 13.50lbs / 6.12kg shells, 1906 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on centreline, evenly spread, all raised mounts
      20 - 0.75" / 19.1 mm guns (10x2 guns), 0.21lbs / 0.10kg shells, 1906 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 3,808 lbs / 1,727 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 100
   2 - 21.0" / 533.4 mm submerged torpedo tubes

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   8.00" / 203 mm   274.62 ft / 83.70 m   10.00 ft / 3.05 m
   Ends:   4.00" / 102 mm   195.36 ft / 59.55 m   10.00 ft / 3.05 m
   Upper:   4.00" / 102 mm   274.62 ft / 83.70 m   8.00 ft / 2.44 m
     Main Belt covers 90 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   8.00" / 203 mm   4.00" / 102 mm      8.00" / 203 mm
   2nd:   4.00" / 102 mm   2.00" / 51 mm            -
   3rd:   1.00" / 25 mm   1.00" / 25 mm            -

   - Armour deck: 2.00" / 51 mm, Conning tower: 8.00" / 203 mm

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 4 shafts, 18,233 shp / 13,602 Kw = 21.00 kts
   Range 6,600nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1,882 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   496 - 645

Cost:
   £0.908 million / $3.633 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 476 tons, 4.8 %
   Armour: 3,039 tons, 30.7 %
      - Belts: 1,633 tons, 16.5 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 586 tons, 5.9 %
      - Armour Deck: 740 tons, 7.5 %
      - Conning Tower: 80 tons, 0.8 %
   Machinery: 1,519 tons, 15.3 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 3,312 tons, 33.4 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,465 tons, 14.8 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 100 tons, 1.0 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     9,885 lbs / 4,484 Kg = 19.8 x 10.0 " / 254 mm shells or 1.6 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.13
   Metacentric height 3.0 ft / 0.9 m
   Roll period: 14.8 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 74 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.56
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.31

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has raised forecastle
   Block coefficient: 0.550
   Length to Beam Ratio: 7.70 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 21.68 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 45 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 56
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      21.00 ft / 6.40 m
      - Forecastle (21 %):   21.00 ft / 6.40 m (12.00 ft / 3.66 m aft of break)
      - Mid (50 %):      12.00 ft / 3.66 m
      - Quarterdeck (21 %):   12.00 ft / 3.66 m
      - Stern:      12.00 ft / 3.66 m
      - Average freeboard:   13.87 ft / 4.23 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 89.8 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 92.2 %
   Waterplane Area: 20,009 Square feet or 1,859 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 99 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 112 lbs/sq ft or 546 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.97
      - Longitudinal: 1.33
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily


as for the 10" vs 11" thing these are intended as replacements for my 8" cruisers, not as battleships.  You all already saw my 12" BB my "Naval Plan" calls for 2 Heavy Cruisers (realisticly they are Battle Cruisers or german pocket battleships in world war 2) for every 1 BB.  while i want them to be capable of independant operation, They will generaly function as part of a battle group

[Korpen]

Italia HC-1906, Italia Heavy Cruiser laid down 1906 (Engine 1905) 
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      21.00 ft / 6.40 m
      - Forecastle (21 %):   21.00 ft / 6.40 m (12.00 ft / 3.66 m aft of break)
      - Mid (50 %):      12.00 ft / 3.66 m
      - Quarterdeck (21 %):   12.00 ft / 3.66 m
      - Stern:      12.00 ft / 3.66 m
      - Average freeboard:   13.87 ft / 4.23 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

I really like her, nice balance between firepower, speed and protection.
Just one (well two) minor thing; Springsharp never places any guns on the forecastle, and as this ships has a raised forecastle that means that the A-turret cannot fire forward. There are two ways to address this, one is to raise the gun, and the other is to shorten the forecastle, make a raise at the midbreak and move the midbreak forward. The first way was used on the Dutch Flandern-class, the second on the Van der Zaan-class.
The other minor thing is to raise her displacement to 8500ton, to get a nice, even, number. :)

[Tanthalas]

Italia HC-1906, Italia Heavy Cruiser laid down 1906 (Engine 1905) Final Version

Displacement:
   8,500 t light; 8,981 t standard; 9,900 t normal; 10,636 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   470.00 ft / 470.00 ft x 61.00 ft x 22.00 ft (normal load)
   143.26 m / 143.26 m x 18.59 m  x 6.71 m

Armament:
      6 - 10.00" / 254 mm guns (2x3 guns), 500.00lbs / 226.80kg shells, 1906 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, evenly spread
      12 - 5.00" / 127 mm guns in single mounts, 62.50lbs / 28.35kg shells, 1906 Model
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts
     on side, all amidships
      4 - 3.00" / 76.2 mm guns (2x2 guns), 13.50lbs / 6.12kg shells, 1906 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on centreline, evenly spread, all raised mounts
      20 - 0.75" / 19.1 mm guns (10x2 guns), 0.21lbs / 0.10kg shells, 1906 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 3,808 lbs / 1,727 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 100
   2 - 21.0" / 533.4 mm submerged torpedo tubes

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   8.00" / 203 mm   273.16 ft / 83.26 m   10.00 ft / 3.05 m
   Ends:   4.00" / 102 mm   196.82 ft / 59.99 m   10.00 ft / 3.05 m
   Upper:   4.00" / 102 mm   273.16 ft / 83.26 m   8.00 ft / 2.44 m
     Main Belt covers 89 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   8.00" / 203 mm   4.00" / 102 mm      8.00" / 203 mm
   2nd:   4.00" / 102 mm   2.00" / 51 mm            -
   3rd:   1.00" / 25 mm   1.00" / 25 mm            -

   - Armour deck: 2.00" / 51 mm, Conning tower: 8.00" / 203 mm

Machinery:
   Coal and oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 4 shafts, 18,217 shp / 13,590 Kw = 21.00 kts
   Range 6,000nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1,655 tons (90% coal)

Complement:
   496 - 645

Cost:
   £0.862 million / $3.449 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 476 tons, 4.8 %
   Armour: 3,094 tons, 31.3 %
      - Belts: 1,629 tons, 16.5 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 646 tons, 6.5 %
      - Armour Deck: 740 tons, 7.5 %
      - Conning Tower: 79 tons, 0.8 %
   Machinery: 1,503 tons, 15.2 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 3,388 tons, 34.2 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,339 tons, 13.5 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 100 tons, 1.0 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     10,181 lbs / 4,618 Kg = 20.4 x 10.0 " / 254 mm shells or 1.7 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.13
   Metacentric height 3.0 ft / 0.9 m
   Roll period: 14.8 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.57
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.32

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.549
   Length to Beam Ratio: 7.70 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 21.68 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 45 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 53
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      20.00 ft / 6.10 m
      - Forecastle (21 %):   20.00 ft / 6.10 m
      - Mid (30 %):      12.00 ft / 3.66 m
      - Quarterdeck (21 %):   12.00 ft / 3.66 m
      - Stern:      12.00 ft / 3.66 m
      - Average freeboard:   14.04 ft / 4.28 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 89.4 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 96.9 %
   Waterplane Area: 19,996 Square feet or 1,858 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 99 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 114 lbs/sq ft or 557 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.97
      - Longitudinal: 1.37
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

[Carthaginian]

Raised forecastle will mean that guns can't fire forward... try a gradual slope, and a stem height of about 25' should get rid of the 'wet forward' warning..

[Tanthalas]

I had already tweeked it was an easy change realy hull has a flush deck now.  if you look at the one just above

[Tanthalas]

Version i actualy built version

Italia HC-1906, Italia Heavy Cruiser laid down 1906 (Engine 1905)

Displacement:
   8,500 t light; 8,918 t standard; 9,834 t normal; 10,567 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   470.00 ft / 470.00 ft x 61.00 ft x 22.00 ft (normal load)
   143.26 m / 143.26 m x 18.59 m  x 6.71 m

Armament:
      6 - 10.00" / 254 mm guns (2x3 guns), 500.00lbs / 226.80kg shells, 1906 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, evenly spread
      12 - 5.00" / 127 mm guns in single mounts, 62.50lbs / 28.35kg shells, 1906 Model
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts
     on side, all amidships
      4 - 3.00" / 76.2 mm guns (2x2 guns), 13.50lbs / 6.12kg shells, 1906 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on centreline, evenly spread, all raised mounts
      20 - 0.75" / 19.1 mm guns (10x2 guns), 0.21lbs / 0.10kg shells, 1906 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 3,808 lbs / 1,727 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 100
   2 - 21.0" / 533.4 mm submerged torpedo tubes

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   8.00" / 203 mm   274.20 ft / 83.58 m   10.00 ft / 3.05 m
   Ends:   4.00" / 102 mm   195.78 ft / 59.67 m   10.00 ft / 3.05 m
   Upper:   4.00" / 102 mm   274.20 ft / 83.58 m   8.00 ft / 2.44 m
     Main Belt covers 90 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   8.00" / 203 mm   4.00" / 102 mm      8.00" / 203 mm
   2nd:   4.00" / 102 mm   2.00" / 51 mm            -
   3rd:   1.00" / 25 mm   1.00" / 25 mm            -

   - Armour deck: 2.00" / 51 mm, Conning tower: 8.00" / 203 mm

Machinery:
   Coal and oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 4 shafts, 18,122 shp / 13,519 Kw = 21.00 kts
   Range 6,000nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1,648 tons (90% coal)

Complement:
   493 - 641

Cost:
   £0.862 million / $3.449 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 476 tons, 4.8 %
   Armour: 3,054 tons, 31.1 %
      - Belts: 1,631 tons, 16.6 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 606 tons, 6.2 %
      - Armour Deck: 737 tons, 7.5 %
      - Conning Tower: 79 tons, 0.8 %
   Machinery: 1,495 tons, 15.2 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 3,375 tons, 34.3 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,334 tons, 13.6 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 100 tons, 1.0 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     10,251 lbs / 4,650 Kg = 20.5 x 10.0 " / 254 mm shells or 1.6 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.14
   Metacentric height 3.0 ft / 0.9 m
   Roll period: 14.7 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.58
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.32

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.546
   Length to Beam Ratio: 7.70 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 21.68 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 45 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 53
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      24.00 ft / 7.32 m
      - Forecastle (21 %):   13.00 ft / 3.96 m
      - Mid (30 %):      13.00 ft / 3.96 m
      - Quarterdeck (21 %):   13.00 ft / 3.96 m
      - Stern:      13.00 ft / 3.96 m
      - Average freeboard:   13.92 ft / 4.24 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 89.7 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 100.1 %
   Waterplane Area: 19,928 Square feet or 1,851 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 99 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 114 lbs/sq ft or 557 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.97
      - Longitudinal: 1.37
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily
realised i posted the still wet forward version

[maddox]

Damn, France needs to put a BB against this one if it comes to that point.

Maybe that the new Amble class can stand it, but with 1000 tons less, it's doubtfull. 
Chevalier Rouge and Gloire are much bigger. Almost as big as normal BB's.

[Tanthalas]

She was intended to make Admirals stay up late at night worrying about what they would do with her.  I take it I hit the mark.  LOL

[Borys]

Ahoj!
Nice.
Borys

[miketr]

Nice design you might want to look at the ships to be found in the Med that are in the same range.

http://www.navalism.org/index.php?topic=673.0

Michael

[Tanthalas]

Heya mike, I had already researched your cruisers, while I was working on her I took the liberty to look at both yours and the French ships.  It actually made me scrap the whole program at one point and start over with a new ship.  However I finally decided with my tech limitations that a smaller ship was better, so I built the Numidicas class.  You will discover im horendously cheep always looking for a way to get the maximum bang out of my buck.  im curently working on a revised version of the Numidicas class that will incorperate my advances in tech.