Proposed 1906 Cruiser

Tanthalas · September 20, 2007, 03:14:06 PM

in all honesty im not realy sure i can build a reputable ac in 1906, the bulges were added just for stability, I didnt think about the unarmord issue ><. Back to messin with it in SS.

Tanthalas · September 20, 2007, 03:18:05 PM

Mark 7

Italia-1906-AC, Italia Heavy Cruiser laid down 1906 (Engine 1905)

Displacement:
   11,156 t light; 11,704 t standard; 12,450 t normal; 13,047 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   470.00 ft / 470.00 ft x 73.00 ft x 24.00 ft (normal load)
   143.26 m / 143.26 m x 22.25 m x 7.32 m

Armament:
8 - 10.00" / 254 mm guns (4x2 guns), 500.00lbs / 226.80kg shells, 1905 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, evenly spread, 1 raised mount - superfiring
14 - 5.00" / 127 mm guns in single mounts, 62.50lbs / 28.35kg shells, 1905 Model
     Quick firing guns in casemate mounts
     on side, all amidships
2 - 3.00" / 76.2 mm guns (1x2 guns), 13.50lbs / 6.12kg shells, 1905 Model
     Quick firing guns in a deck mount with hoist
     on centreline aft, all raised guns - superfiring
16 - 3.00" / 76.2 mm guns in single mounts, 13.50lbs / 6.12kg shells, 1905 Model
     Quick firing guns in casemate mounts
     on side, evenly spread
     16 guns in hull casemates - Limited use in all but light seas
16 - 0.75" / 19.1 mm guns (8x2 guns), 0.21lbs / 0.10kg shells, 1905 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 5,121 lbs / 2,323 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 100
   2 - 21.0" / 533.4 mm submerged torpedo tubes

Armour:
- Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   8.00" / 203 mm   299.48 ft / 91.28 m   11.00 ft / 3.35 m
   Ends:   4.00" / 102 mm   170.50 ft / 51.97 m   11.00 ft / 3.35 m
   Upper:   4.00" / 102 mm   299.48 ft / 91.28 m   8.00 ft / 2.44 m
     Main Belt covers 98 % of normal length

- Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   8.00" / 203 mm   4.00" / 102 mm      8.00" / 203 mm
   2nd:   2.00" / 51 mm   1.00" / 25 mm        -
   3rd:   1.00" / 25 mm   1.00" / 25 mm        -
   4th:   2.00" / 51 mm   1.00" / 25 mm        -
   5th:   1.00" / 25 mm   1.00" / 25 mm        -

- Armour deck: 2.00" / 51 mm, Conning tower: 8.00" / 203 mm

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 4 shafts, 25,368 shp / 18,925 Kw = 22.00 kts
   Range 4,000nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1,343 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   589 - 766

Cost:
   £1.224 million / $4.897 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 640 tons, 5.1 %
   Armour: 3,787 tons, 30.4 %
     - Belts: 1,848 tons, 14.8 %
     - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
     - Armament: 978 tons, 7.9 %
     - Armour Deck: 869 tons, 7.0 %
     - Conning Tower: 93 tons, 0.7 %
   Machinery: 2,114 tons, 17.0 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 4,415 tons, 35.5 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,294 tons, 10.4 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 200 tons, 1.6 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     12,031 lbs / 5,457 Kg = 24.1 x 10.0 " / 254 mm shells or 1.8 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.10
   Metacentric height 3.7 ft / 1.1 m
   Roll period: 15.9 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.55
   Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.30

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has raised forecastle
   Block coefficient: 0.529
   Length to Beam Ratio: 6.44 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 21.68 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 50 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 54
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
     - Stem:      24.00 ft / 7.32 m
     - Forecastle (18 %):   24.00 ft / 7.32 m (15.00 ft / 4.57 m aft of break)
     - Mid (50 %):      15.00 ft / 4.57 m
     - Quarterdeck (18 %):   15.00 ft / 4.57 m
     - Stern:      15.00 ft / 4.57 m
     - Average freeboard:   16.63 ft / 5.07 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 98.0 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 113.9 %
   Waterplane Area: 23,483 Square feet or 2,182 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 93 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 129 lbs/sq ft or 632 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.94
      - Longitudinal: 1.72
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

Carthaginian · September 20, 2007, 03:24:51 PM

Give up a half-inch of deck armor.
Raise speed a knot.
Increase range to at least 6000 n. mi. @ 10kts.

Oh, and the torpedoes... they's gots to go!
That's a good bit of survivability right there.

P3D · September 20, 2007, 03:55:24 PM

2" armor is about right for the era - usually on multiple decks.
6000@10 is a good idea, as the ships should be able to get from Italy to Uruguqay without refueling (Genoa to Montevideo 6040nm).
If you are using 1905 engines, then you are a bit over the allowed SHP rating. 20000SHP is enough for 26kts on a 2000t, 24kts on a 3500t cruiser, or 20kts on a 13000t battleship. And I'd put larger guns on her if the speed is limited to 20-21knots.

See my two designs with the SPH limit in mind:
http://www.navalism.org/index.php?topic=670.0
http://www.navalism.org/index.php?topic=186.0

Some CSA designs:
http://www.navalism.org/index.php?topic=744.0
Or the Iberian AC you are referring to:

http://www.navalism.org/index.php?topic=673.0

Ithekro · September 20, 2007, 06:11:52 PM

How about something slightly more advanced than the real Pisa, but with only 20,000 shp steam engines.

Not as powerful in terms of 10" guns, but should make up for it with the large broadside of 7.5" guns (makes the ship equivalent to having an extra 4 x 10" broadside while not having all the guns in so few turrets...so equal in firepower to a 10 x 10" gun broadside.)

Another option follows....

Mark 8 "Pisa"

Italian Armored Cruiser laid down 1906 (Engine 1905)

Displacement:
   11,433 t light; 12,074 t standard; 13,250 t normal; 14,138 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   480.00 ft / 480.00 ft x 80.00 ft x 24.00 ft (normal load)
   146.30 m / 146.30 m x 24.38 m x 7.32 m

Armament:
6 - 10.00" / 254 mm guns (4 mounts), 500.00lbs / 226.80kg shells, 1906 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, evenly spread
4 - 7.50" / 191 mm guns (2x2 guns), 210.94lbs / 95.68kg shells, 1906 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, evenly spread, all raised mounts
8 - 7.50" / 191 mm guns (4x2 guns), 210.94lbs / 95.68kg shells, 1906 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on side, all amidships
16 - 3.00" / 76.2 mm guns in single mounts, 13.50lbs / 6.12kg shells, 1906 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
     16 guns in hull casemates - Limited use in all but light seas
4 - 0.75" / 19.1 mm guns in single mounts, 0.21lbs / 0.10kg shells, 1906 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 5,748 lbs / 2,607 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 110

Armour:
- Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   8.00" / 203 mm   315.00 ft / 96.01 m   8.00 ft / 2.44 m
   Ends:   4.00" / 102 mm   165.00 ft / 50.29 m   8.00 ft / 2.44 m
   Upper:   4.00" / 102 mm   315.00 ft / 96.01 m   8.00 ft / 2.44 m
     Main Belt covers 101 % of normal length

- Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   8.00" / 203 mm   4.00" / 102 mm      8.00" / 203 mm
   2nd:   8.00" / 203 mm   4.00" / 102 mm      6.00" / 152 mm
   3rd:   8.00" / 203 mm     -           -

- Armour deck: 2.00" / 51 mm, Conning tower: 10.00" / 254 mm

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 4 shafts, 20,000 shp / 14,920 Kw = 20.52 kts
   Range 6,250nm at 10.00 kts (Bunkerage = 2,116 tons)

Complement:
   616 - 802

Cost:
   £1.237 million / $4.948 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 719 tons, 5.4 %
   Armour: 3,908 tons, 29.5 %
     - Belts: 1,514 tons, 11.4 %
     - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
     - Armament: 1,360 tons, 10.3 %
     - Armour Deck: 913 tons, 6.9 %
     - Conning Tower: 121 tons, 0.9 %
   Machinery: 1,667 tons, 12.6 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 4,940 tons, 37.3 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,817 tons, 13.7 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 200 tons, 1.5 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     13,815 lbs / 6,266 Kg = 27.6 x 10.0 " / 254 mm shells or 2.3 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.07
   Metacentric height 4.1 ft / 1.2 m
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.45
   Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.23

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.503
   Length to Beam Ratio: 6.00 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 21.91 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 45 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 57
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
     - Stem:      19.00 ft / 5.79 m
     - Forecastle (20 %):   13.00 ft / 3.96 m
     - Mid (50 %):      13.00 ft / 3.96 m
     - Quarterdeck (15 %):   13.00 ft / 3.96 m
     - Stern:      13.00 ft / 3.96 m
     - Average freeboard:   13.48 ft / 4.11 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 83.8 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 99.2 %
   Waterplane Area: 24,679 Square feet or 2,293 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 100 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 145 lbs/sq ft or 706 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.96
      - Longitudinal: 1.44
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Or go with a ship that actually has a 10 guns braodside.

Mark 9 "Pisa"

Italian Armored Cruiser laid down 1906 (Engine 1905)

Displacement:
   11,224 t light; 11,836 t standard; 13,000 t normal; 13,879 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   480.00 ft / 480.00 ft x 75.00 ft x 24.00 ft (normal load)
   146.30 m / 146.30 m x 22.86 m x 7.32 m

Armament:
10 - 10.00" / 254 mm guns (5x2 guns), 500.00lbs / 226.80kg shells, 1906 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts
16 - 3.00" / 76.2 mm guns in single mounts, 13.50lbs / 6.12kg shells, 1906 Model
     Quick firing guns in casemate mounts
     on centreline ends, evenly spread
     16 guns in hull casemates - Limited use in all but light seas
4 - 0.75" / 19.1 mm guns in single mounts, 0.21lbs / 0.10kg shells, 1906 Model
     Machine guns in casemate mounts
     on side, all amidships, all raised mounts - superfiring
   Weight of broadside 5,217 lbs / 2,366 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 120

Armour:
- Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   8.00" / 203 mm   315.00 ft / 96.01 m   12.00 ft / 3.66 m
   Ends:   4.00" / 102 mm   165.00 ft / 50.29 m   12.00 ft / 3.66 m
   Upper:   4.00" / 102 mm   315.00 ft / 96.01 m   8.00 ft / 2.44 m
     Main Belt covers 101 % of normal length

- Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   8.00" / 203 mm   4.00" / 102 mm      8.00" / 203 mm
   2nd:   4.00" / 102 mm     -           -

- Armour deck: 2.00" / 51 mm, Conning tower: 10.00" / 254 mm

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 4 shafts, 20,000 shp / 14,920 Kw = 20.58 kts
   Range 6,250nm at 10.00 kts (Bunkerage = 2,095 tons)

Complement:
   608 - 791

Cost:
   £1.174 million / $4.696 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 652 tons, 5.0 %
   Armour: 4,172 tons, 32.1 %
     - Belts: 2,044 tons, 15.7 %
     - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
     - Armament: 1,131 tons, 8.7 %
     - Armour Deck: 878 tons, 6.8 %
     - Conning Tower: 119 tons, 0.9 %
   Machinery: 1,667 tons, 12.8 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 4,532 tons, 34.9 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,776 tons, 13.7 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 200 tons, 1.5 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     14,302 lbs / 6,487 Kg = 28.6 x 10.0 " / 254 mm shells or 2.3 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.08
   Metacentric height 3.8 ft / 1.1 m
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.52
   Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.29

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.527
   Length to Beam Ratio: 6.40 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 21.91 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 45 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 54
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
     - Stem:      18.00 ft / 5.49 m
     - Forecastle (20 %):   14.00 ft / 4.27 m
     - Mid (50 %):      14.00 ft / 4.27 m
     - Quarterdeck (15 %):   14.00 ft / 4.27 m
     - Stern:      14.00 ft / 4.27 m
     - Average freeboard:   14.32 ft / 4.36 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 81.7 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 104.1 %
   Waterplane Area: 23,742 Square feet or 2,206 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 101 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 134 lbs/sq ft or 652 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.96
      - Longitudinal: 1.44
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

Tanthalas · September 20, 2007, 11:15:50 PM

Mark 9 1906 AC, Italia Cruiser laid down 1906 (Engine 1905)

Displacement:
   10,391 t light; 10,933 t standard; 12,000 t normal; 12,854 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   475.00 ft / 475.00 ft x 70.00 ft x 26.00 ft (normal load)
   144.78 m / 144.78 m x 21.34 m x 7.92 m

Armament:
9 - 10.00" / 254 mm guns (3x3 guns), 500.00lbs / 226.80kg shells, 1906 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, majority aft
12 - 5.00" / 127 mm guns in single mounts, 62.50lbs / 28.35kg shells, 1906 Model
     Quick firing guns in casemate mounts
     on side, evenly spread
2 - 3.00" / 76.2 mm guns (1x2 guns), 13.50lbs / 6.12kg shells, 1906 Model
     Quick firing guns in a deck mount with hoist
     on side, all raised guns
   Weight of broadside 5,277 lbs / 2,394 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 100

Armour:
- Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   8.00" / 203 mm   272.94 ft / 83.19 m   11.00 ft / 3.35 m
   Ends:   4.00" / 102 mm   202.05 ft / 61.58 m   11.00 ft / 3.35 m
   Upper:   4.00" / 102 mm   272.94 ft / 83.19 m   8.00 ft / 2.44 m
     Main Belt covers 88 % of normal length
     Main belt does not fully cover magazines and engineering spaces

- Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   8.00" / 203 mm   4.00" / 102 mm      8.00" / 203 mm
   3rd:   4.00" / 102 mm   2.00" / 51 mm        -
   4th:   1.00" / 25 mm   1.00" / 25 mm        -

- Armour deck: 2.00" / 51 mm, Conning tower: 8.00" / 203 mm

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 4 shafts, 20,214 shp / 15,080 Kw = 21.00 kts
   Range 6,000nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1,921 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   573 - 745

Cost:
   £1.154 million / $4.614 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 660 tons, 5.5 %
   Armour: 3,544 tons, 29.5 %
     - Belts: 1,781 tons, 14.8 %
     - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
     - Armament: 864 tons, 7.2 %
     - Armour Deck: 809 tons, 6.7 %
     - Conning Tower: 90 tons, 0.8 %
   Machinery: 1,685 tons, 14.0 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 4,303 tons, 35.9 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,609 tons, 13.4 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 200 tons, 1.7 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     12,387 lbs / 5,619 Kg = 24.8 x 10.0 " / 254 mm shells or 1.9 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.12
   Metacentric height 3.7 ft / 1.1 m
   Roll period: 15.4 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.56
   Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.46

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has raised forecastle
   Block coefficient: 0.486
   Length to Beam Ratio: 6.79 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 21.79 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 45 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 48
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
     - Stem:      22.00 ft / 6.71 m
     - Forecastle (21 %):   22.00 ft / 6.71 m (14.00 ft / 4.27 m aft of break)
     - Mid (50 %):      14.00 ft / 4.27 m
     - Quarterdeck (21 %):   14.00 ft / 4.27 m
     - Stern:      14.00 ft / 4.27 m
     - Average freeboard:   15.70 ft / 4.79 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 88.8 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 101.8 %
   Waterplane Area: 21,872 Square feet or 2,032 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 97 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 130 lbs/sq ft or 636 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.94
      - Longitudinal: 1.84
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

I think ill actualy make a pic for this one i like it

P3D · September 20, 2007, 11:47:17 PM

Too low block coefficient (0.486??). You'd have to make the ship shorter, narrower and decrease draught, but that would shoot your power above what you can do. I'd actually change the battery to 6-8x11", I'd see no reason to develop a 10" gun when you already has a 11" one.

A full battleship capable of 20kts and 8x11" is possible on 13-14,000t light. A 3000t lighter 21kts cruiser is would not have any advantage fighting her.
My attempt for the 6x11" 21kts version is this:

Salerno, Italian Cruiser laid down 1905

Displacement:
   9,692 t light; 10,227 t standard; 11,245 t normal; 12,059 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   450.00 ft / 450.00 ft x 66.00 ft x 25.00 ft (normal load)
   137.16 m / 137.16 m x 20.12 m x 7.62 m

Armament:
6 - 11.00" / 279 mm guns (3x2 guns), 665.50lbs / 301.87kg shells, 1905 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline, evenly spread, 1 raised mount
     Aft Main mounts separated by engine room
12 - 6.00" / 152 mm guns in single mounts, 108.00lbs / 48.99kg shells, 1905 Model
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts
     on side, all amidships
4 - 3.00" / 76.2 mm guns in single mounts, 13.50lbs / 6.12kg shells, 1905 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
8 - 0.40" / 10.2 mm guns in single mounts, 0.03lbs / 0.01kg shells, 1905 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 5,343 lbs / 2,424 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 100

Armour:
- Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   8.00" / 203 mm   280.00 ft / 85.34 m   10.00 ft / 3.05 m
   Ends:   4.00" / 102 mm   170.00 ft / 51.82 m   10.00 ft / 3.05 m
   Upper:   4.00" / 102 mm   280.00 ft / 85.34 m   9.00 ft / 2.74 m
     Main Belt covers 96 % of normal length

- Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   9.00" / 229 mm   4.00" / 102 mm      6.00" / 152 mm
   2nd:   4.00" / 102 mm   1.00" / 25 mm      1.00" / 25 mm
   3rd:   1.00" / 25 mm     -           -

- Armour deck: 2.00" / 51 mm, Conning tower: 8.00" / 203 mm

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 4 shafts, 20,022 shp / 14,937 Kw = 21.00 kts
   Range 6,000nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1,832 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   545 - 709

Cost:
   £1.134 million / $4.535 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 668 tons, 5.9 %
   Armour: 3,286 tons, 29.2 %
     - Belts: 1,669 tons, 14.8 %
     - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
     - Armament: 778 tons, 6.9 %
     - Armour Deck: 753 tons, 6.7 %
     - Conning Tower: 87 tons, 0.8 %
   Machinery: 1,669 tons, 14.8 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 3,970 tons, 35.3 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,553 tons, 13.8 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 100 tons, 0.9 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     10,660 lbs / 4,835 Kg = 16.0 x 11.0 " / 279 mm shells or 1.7 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.06
   Metacentric height 3.0 ft / 0.9 m
   Roll period: 15.9 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 68 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.75
   Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.27

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.530
   Length to Beam Ratio: 6.82 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 21.21 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 48 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 54
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -5.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
     - Stem:      23.59 ft / 7.19 m
     - Forecastle (20 %):   14.00 ft / 4.27 m
     - Mid (50 %):      14.00 ft / 4.27 m
     - Quarterdeck (15 %):   14.00 ft / 4.27 m
     - Stern:      14.00 ft / 4.27 m
     - Average freeboard:   14.77 ft / 4.50 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 93.8 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 99.5 %
   Waterplane Area: 20,345 Square feet or 1,890 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 93 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 130 lbs/sq ft or 634 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.95
      - Longitudinal: 1.81
      - Overall: 1.01
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

Tanthalas · September 21, 2007, 12:08:17 AM

like i said idk im still playing with it. I need small cheep ships, i have to either figure it out or give up though, this thing is holding up my first report... maybee ill just invest a shit ton in tech development lol.

Korpen · September 21, 2007, 12:10:31 AM

Quote from: Tanthalas on September 21, 2007, 12:08:17 AM
like i said idk im still playing with it. I need small cheep ships, i have to either figure it out or give up though, this thing is holding up my first report... maybee ill just invest a shit ton in tech development lol.

Maybe something along the lines of the Dutch Van Der Zaan-class?
http://www.navalism.org/index.php?topic=675.msg4296#msg4296

Borys · September 21, 2007, 12:43:45 AM

Ahoj!
The Van der Zaan is pretty. And CHEAP!!!!
And I'd guess that the wing turrets can be replaced with 7,5" twins for higher ROF.
Borys

Tanthalas · September 21, 2007, 12:50:21 AM

I know now that i looked at her, might have do build my own clone of her. Of course she would need a few mods to make her truely an Italian ship =P gots to have a but ugly super structure to be one of my ships =P

Korpen · September 21, 2007, 01:07:46 AM

Quote from: Borys on September 21, 2007, 12:43:45 AM
Ahoj!
The Van der Zaan is pretty. And CHEAP!!!!
And I'd guess that the wing turrets can be replaced with 7,5" twins for higher ROF.
Borys

I doubt a 19cm gun have a higher practical ROF then a 24cm gun (at least a difference that matters), both guns have shells too heavy for manual handling, so it is the speed of the transfer system and handling that can differ. And that is more to the design then directly connected to the size of the shell.

The most obvious mod on her would be to go to only three twin turrets, that would give allot of extra weight for more seakeeping, smaller size or larger guns.

Going 8x24cm in four turrets (two superfiring) is also a possibility if reducing the misc weight to 100ton.

Borys · September 21, 2007, 01:13:40 AM

Ahoj!
You are correct - there shoudn't be much difference.
Borys

The Rock Doctor · September 21, 2007, 07:51:44 AM

Personally, I think that if you can't accomplish what you want with your current tech, you should use the resources in other ways, research/acquire the necessary tech, and wait a year or two to build something that really does do the job(s) you want.

Desertfox · September 21, 2007, 08:45:28 AM

If you can't build her with the tech you have, build something else you might need, like a pack of destroyers or auxilaries. Then acquire the tech for free (you know where ;)) and build the ship. That is what I am doing, since I can't build 29kt CAs right now, Im building the destroyers and light cruisers to go with them, while researching the needed tech so when the time comes I can build said ships.