Hmmm... Should I? (Pre-Dread Refit)

[The Rock Doctor]

...especially considering the massive loss of capital ships in the Pacific Rim powers. Frankly, it'll take the DKB and NS at least that long to gain a force of ships that could threaten these ships after this refit... and probably it'll take them a lot longer to build a comfortable enough margin to fight them and risk loosing.

...Especially with the second-hand ship market being more-or-less tapped out.  BP are hard to come by, so there's greater awareness of the value of scrapping one's surplus rather than selling it.  Everything's going to have to be built new, capacity is limited, and few are willing to divert their own capacity to build for somebody else.

One wonders how many of the participants in the current conflict will rate as significant powers in five or ten years...

[Carthaginian]

Rock, that is a MAJOR reason for deciding to rebuild these ships rather than scrap them.
'Obsolete' is only 'useless' when it's confronted by more capable modern tech. As long as the Pacific is not filled to busting with modern battleships, these middle-age ships will be useful against ships coming close to my coasts.

With the rebuild, they would even be workable as slow but powerful high-seas partol vessels. Shoot, with some Misc. Weight to booms, hoses and pumps and I could use them as an improvised tender for my new destroyers. They could become flagships for self-sufficient long-duration coastal patrol groups.

They are, currently, just too useful to get rid of; and, thanks to the war, tehy are likely to remain useful for some time to come.

[The Rock Doctor]

This is a valid point - though to be fair, I think I've adopted the philosophy of "replace everything old, even if it means no numerical increase".

You probably could rebuild the ships as high-seas patrol vessels, but do you need such a function?  Other than Haiti, you have no significant offshore posessions to patrol to.

[Carthaginian]

This is a valid point - though to be fair, I think I've adopted the philosophy of "replace everything old, even if it means no numerical increase".

I'm doing that too... ;) I'm just not throwing out some older ships as I build new ones. My old armored cruisers and protected cruisers has gots to go, but the older battleships can still be used.

You probably could rebuild the ships as high-seas patrol vessels, but do you need such a function?  Other than Haiti, you have no significant offshore posessions to patrol to.

Well, the Pacific is a BIG ocean... and it's got active all the sudden.
It'd never hurt to have an early warning screen out there... or possible station ships for any possessions that might be up for sale soon.

[Korpen]

Well, if you can afford to be without her, I think she should be scrapped.
A rebuild will be pretty expensive, and not really make a huge improvement, she will still only be usable as a huge CD ship, and you could get a modern, almost as good CD ship for the same cost.

Or you could build 2 modern minelayers and bunch of sweepers for the same cost, something that would do more to discourage people from cruising up and down the cost.

I don't think I could be without her, otherwise I'd have not planned to put so much into her.
I need those heavy gun tubes at sea, and this is the cheapest way to get them there. The Pacific coast isn't a really high priority; 3 of these ships refitted over the next 4-5 years would give me a good defense-oriented force, especially considering the massive loss of capital ships in the Pacific Rim powers. Frankly, it'll take the DKB and NS at least that long to gain a force of ships that could threaten these ships after this refit... and probably it'll take them a lot longer to build a comfortable enough margin to fight them and risk loosing.

These ships supported by a few good scout cruisers and a good destroyer fleet will provide security, if not striking power, for my Pacific fleet until about 1918.

Oh, the CSA don't do mines.
Look at the coastal currents in our waters.
The mines will risk more harm to our own ships than anyone else's since the currents will simply sweep them along our coastlines rather than taking them out to sea.

Tried putting an anchor on the mines?  ;)

I don't quite by the currents argument, but it seems the seafloor is dropping of quickly of the CSA pacific cost, and that limits the use of mines quite allot, as laying mines in water much more then 300-400m is not really possible.

Hm, if you want to keep them, then my advice would be to keep them, but not upgrading them at all. After all, for the missions you outlined, her main function would be to exist as a deterrent, and for that she is plenty good enough for at least five years more. By then you should have a good idea about future needs, hopefully. :)

[Carthaginian]

Tried putting an anchor on the mines?  ;)

Well, anchor cables do rust. ;)
The Gulf Stream would mean mines laid across the Southern coast would simply circle the Gulf, and then become a hazard in the Straits of Florida.
The California current would sweep any mines south along my coast, and then carry them out to sea only after endangering all my Pacific shipping.

Neither of these is a good thing.

I don't quite by the currents argument, but it seems the seafloor is dropping of quickly of the CSA pacific cost, and that limits the use of mines quite allot, as laying mines in water much more then 300-400m is not really possible.

I didn't think about that, but it's another reason that mines would be a bad idea.

Hm, if you want to keep them, then my advice would be to keep them, but not upgrading them at all. After all, for the missions you outlined, her main function would be to exist as a deterrent, and for that she is plenty good enough for at least five years more. By then you should have a good idea about future needs, hopefully. :)

Well, their guns no longer have the range to threaten a modern ship.
Any other 12" BB in the world could stand safely out of range and shell her to pieces. At least with the main guns refitted, she would be able to fire at similar ranges. She'd still be slower, but she'd at least be able to return fire. Also, she could serve as a station ship, a tender ship, and varrious other 'temporary' roles as needed if refitted. And getting her off coal is a big priority. The rest of the Navy is going to oil firing, and she needs to follow.

[Korpen]

Well, anchor cables do rust. ;)
The Gulf Stream would mean mines laid across the Southern coast would simply circle the Gulf, and then become a hazard in the Straits of Florida.
The California current would sweep any mines south along my coast, and then carry them out to sea only after endangering all my Pacific shipping.

Neither of these is a good thing.

But if you happen to have some stockpiles of mines you are not going to use, can I buy them?
Not a lot just enough for a mine laying sortie or two (1000-2000 mines). ;)

Well, their guns no longer have the range to threaten a modern ship.
Any other 12" BB in the world could stand safely out of range and shell her to pieces. At least with the main guns refitted, she would be able to fire at similar ranges. She'd still be slower, but she'd at least be able to return fire. Also, she could serve as a station ship, a tender ship, and varrious other 'temporary' roles as needed if refitted. And getting her off coal is a big priority. The rest of the Navy is going to oil firing, and she needs to follow.

Even if rebuilt she is still going to be massively outclassed by a modern BB. My point is that none of the functions you outlined are really pressing. There are no modern BBs in service in the pacific yet, and not many of them under construction either. The CSA does not really lose much by postponing a refit a few years, while the gain might be as much as 5BP.

[P3D]

With the upcoming modified reconstruction rules (no cost for reconstruction), any advantage gained from changing the engines is marginal. The question is, however, manpower issue. A 6000t ship would have 60-70% the crew (200 less), and would also require lower support infrastructure. If the naval service is using conscript seamen, it is not a problem, but a full professional navy might prefer to have 1 CDBB and one cruiser instead of one old PDN.

Also, a 12K ton old ship can usually withstand more punishment than a 6K ton new one, and would have better range.

Orange selling 3 BBs to the Swiss solved some manning issues (even if those were in reserve).

Regarding CSA attitude with NS.
CSA is the main oil supplier of NS right now. With the optempo, only the continuing shipments keep NSN going.

[Borys]

Ahoj!
Replacing VTE with turbines is not an option - I'm adding this just in case.

Borys

[Carthaginian]

Ahoj!
Replacing VTE with turbines is not an option - I'm adding this just in case.

Borys

I thought it was allowed under reconstruction rules, with the possibility of side effects.
Apparently not.

[Borys]

Ahoj!
The shafts in VE and Turbine powered ships run at different angles to the bottom. It is possible, but probably costs as much as a new ship ...

Borys

[Desertfox]

Frankly, it'll take the DKB and NS at least that long to gain a force of ships that could threaten these ships after this refit... and probably it'll take them a lot longer to build a comfortable enough margin to fight them and risk loosing.

I don't see why your worried about the Pacific, in fact you should be glad that there's a lot fewer ships now that you have to counter. ;) Frankly the last place NS and the DKB will look at is the CSA, we will be too busy fighting each other.

Hey - you're part monarchy too, Foxy

But a Parlimentary Monarchy with the Queen mearly as a figurehead. More Republic than Monarchy.

NS started a war of aggression against many nations that the CSA had good relations with; that's generally not a good thing to do, even if on good terms with a nation yourself.

I started a War against ONE nation. The others then started their own War of Aggression against NS.

Still, NS is not beyond redemption in the CSA... yet.
A speedy end to the war they started would be a first step towards reconciliation.

Tried it twice before, but each time someone else decided to join. Makes it quite difficult to end a war that way.

Regarding CSA attitude with NS.
CSA is the main oil supplier of NS right now. With the optempo, only the continuing shipments keep NSN going.

I have my own Oil Supplies, enough for the time being, and right now most of my ships are Coal Fired. Plus I can also get Oil form the Ottomans, Oil is still not contraband.

[P3D]

I have my own Oil Supplies, enough for the time being, and right now most of my ships are Coal Fired. Plus I can also get Oil form the Ottomans, Oil is still not contraband.

Most of your fast ships rely on oil firing to reach max speed. Destroyers, LCs. There are some oil reserves, but they are limited, especially as the oil-firing ships were introduced pretty recently. You could still operate for months, but with economy, and pray for a conclusion of the war before it gets felt.

Currently there is oil production in the following countries:

CSA
UNK
Russia
Persia
DOI - reduced production due to the destruction of its main field
Austria
Rohan (although most Californian oilfields are in CSA territory)

Ottomans does not have any oil production whatsoever. Nevermind, that you would have to deliver those supplies to Australia, which might be problematic with all the navigable straits mined or blocked.

[Desertfox]

But remember I do have part of the East Indies and that part does have Oil...

[Korpen]

DOI - reduced production due to the destruction of its main field

When the hell was Sumatra attacked?
The Largest oilfields in the NOI is in north and central Sumatra, followed by Java itself, the Borneo fields are third, and most of those are around Balikpapan.