Taking a "good idea" too far?

[Borys]

SMS Siligia, Habsburgs Schlachtschiff laid down 1909

Displacement:
   30 510 t light; 32 202 t standard; 34 284 t normal; 35 949 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   705,49 ft / 705,00 ft x 96,00 ft x 29,50 ft (normal load)
   215,03 m / 214,88 m x 29,26 m  x 8,99 m

Armament:
      10 - 13,50" / 343 mm guns (5x2 guns), 1 250,00lbs / 566,99kg shells, 1909 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, majority aft, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
      4 - 13,50" / 343 mm guns (2x2 guns), 1 250,00lbs / 566,99kg shells, 1909 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on side, all amidships
      18 - 6,00" / 152 mm guns in single mounts, 100,00lbs / 45,36kg shells, 1909 Model
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts
     on side, evenly spread
     18 guns in hull casemates - Limited use in heavy seas
      8 - 3,00" / 76,2 mm guns in single mounts, 13,50lbs / 6,12kg shells, 1909 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 19 408 lbs / 8 803 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 90
   4 - 20,0" / 508 mm submerged torpedo tubes

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   11,0" / 279 mm   462,00 ft / 140,82 m   17,00 ft / 5,18 m
   Ends:   4,00" / 102 mm   218,00 ft / 66,45 m   12,00 ft / 3,66 m
     25,00 ft / 7,62 m Unarmoured ends
   Upper:   7,00" / 178 mm   462,00 ft / 140,82 m   8,50 ft / 2,59 m
     Main Belt covers 101% of normal length

   - Torpedo Bulkhead:
      1,50" / 38 mm   450,00 ft / 137,16 m   45,00 ft / 13,72 m

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   12,0" / 305 mm   6,00" / 152 mm      10,0" / 254 mm
   2nd:   12,0" / 305 mm   6,00" / 152 mm      10,0" / 254 mm
   3rd:   4,00" / 102 mm   1,00" / 25 mm      1,00" / 25 mm

   - Armour deck: 2,00" / 51 mm, Conning tower: 12,00" / 305 mm

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 4 shafts, 50 508 shp / 37 679 Kw = 23,00 kts
   Range 5 000nm at 12,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 3 748 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   1 259 - 1 637

Cost:
   £3,445 million / $13,781 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 2 409 tons, 7,0%
   Armour: 11 911 tons, 34,7%
      - Belts: 5 289 tons, 15,4%
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 1 124 tons, 3,3%
      - Armament: 3 392 tons, 9,9%
      - Armour Deck: 1 833 tons, 5,3%
      - Conning Tower: 273 tons, 0,8%
   Machinery: 2 525 tons, 7,4%
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 13 265 tons, 38,7%
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 3 773 tons, 11,0%
   Miscellaneous weights: 400 tons, 1,2%

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     38 283 lbs / 17 365 Kg = 31,1 x 13,5 " / 343 mm shells or 5,9 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,08
   Metacentric height 5,5 ft / 1,7 m
   Roll period: 17,2 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 60 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,75
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1,20

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak
   Block coefficient: 0,601
   Length to Beam Ratio: 7,34 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 26,55 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 42 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 1,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      28,00 ft / 8,53 m
      - Forecastle (26%):   18,00 ft / 5,49 m
      - Mid (50%):      18,00 ft / 5,49 m (17,00 ft / 5,18 m aft of break)
      - Quarterdeck (15%):   17,00 ft / 5,18 m
      - Stern:      17,00 ft / 5,18 m
      - Average freeboard:   18,54 ft / 5,65 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 100,7%
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 130,5%
   Waterplane Area: 49 546 Square feet or 4 603 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 94%
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 196 lbs/sq ft or 956 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,99
      - Longitudinal: 1,10
      - Overall: 1,00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

[Korpen]

Huge.
And for that size, a wafer-thin armour.
Odd size for the guns as well, reduce the diameter with ,5mm and you get a gun with a diameter of exact 13 inches.
And reduching the shell to 1000 punds (560kg) would look more nice and even. :)

[Borys]

Ahoj!
343mm is a historical calibre - a round thirteen-and-a-half  inches. And 1250 lbs was the historical shell weight. A heavier, 1400 lbs shell was introduced later. And 1000 lbs is the shell weight of Habsburg 12 inchers.
The armour is not "wafer" thin - it is on the thinner side :)

New take:
SMS Siligia, Habsburgs Schlachtschiff laid down 1909

Displacement:
   30 372 t light; 32 059 t standard; 34 047 t normal; 35 638 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   670,49 ft / 670,00 ft x 99,00 ft x 29,50 ft (normal load)
   204,37 m / 204,22 m x 30,18 m  x 8,99 m

Armament:
      10 - 13,50" / 343 mm guns (5x2 guns), 1 250,00lbs / 566,99kg shells, 1909 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, majority aft, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
      4 - 13,50" / 343 mm guns (2x2 guns), 1 250,00lbs / 566,99kg shells, 1909 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on side, all amidships
      18 - 6,00" / 152 mm guns in single mounts, 100,00lbs / 45,36kg shells, 1909 Model
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts
     on side, evenly spread
     18 guns in hull casemates - Limited use in heavy seas
      8 - 3,00" / 76,2 mm guns in single mounts, 13,50lbs / 6,12kg shells, 1909 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 19 408 lbs / 8 803 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 90
   4 - 20,0" / 508 mm submerged torpedo tubes

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   12,0" / 305 mm   420,00 ft / 128,02 m   17,00 ft / 5,18 m
   Ends:   4,00" / 102 mm   250,00 ft / 76,20 m   12,00 ft / 3,66 m
   Upper:   8,00" / 203 mm   420,00 ft / 128,02 m   9,00 ft / 2,74 m
     Main Belt covers 96% of normal length

   - Torpedo Bulkhead:
      1,50" / 38 mm   450,00 ft / 137,16 m   45,00 ft / 13,72 m

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   13,0" / 330 mm   6,00" / 152 mm      12,0" / 305 mm
   2nd:   13,0" / 330 mm   6,00" / 152 mm      12,0" / 305 mm
   3rd:   4,00" / 102 mm   1,00" / 25 mm      1,00" / 25 mm

   - Armour deck: 2,00" / 51 mm, Conning tower: 12,00" / 305 mm

Machinery:
   Coal and oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 4 shafts, 36 634 shp / 27 329 Kw = 21,00 kts
   Range 5 000nm at 12,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 3 579 tons (90% coal)

Complement:
   1 253 - 1 629

Cost:
   £3,341 million / $13,363 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 2 409 tons, 7,1%
   Armour: 12 553 tons, 36,9%
      - Belts: 5 528 tons, 16,2%
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 1 124 tons, 3,3%
      - Armament: 3 819 tons, 11,2%
      - Armour Deck: 1 810 tons, 5,3%
      - Conning Tower: 272 tons, 0,8%
   Machinery: 1 814 tons, 5,3%
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 13 196 tons, 38,8%
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 3 675 tons, 10,8%
   Miscellaneous weights: 400 tons, 1,2%

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     41 364 lbs / 18 762 Kg = 33,6 x 13,5 " / 343 mm shells or 6,9 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,08
   Metacentric height 5,8 ft / 1,8 m
   Roll period: 17,3 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 60 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,69
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1,25

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak
   Block coefficient: 0,609
   Length to Beam Ratio: 6,77 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 25,88 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 39 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 48
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 1,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      28,00 ft / 8,53 m
      - Forecastle (26%):   18,00 ft / 5,49 m
      - Mid (50%):      18,00 ft / 5,49 m (17,00 ft / 5,18 m aft of break)
      - Quarterdeck (15%):   17,00 ft / 5,18 m
      - Stern:      17,00 ft / 5,18 m
      - Average freeboard:   18,54 ft / 5,65 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 92,1%
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 129,5%
   Waterplane Area: 48 922 Square feet or 4 545 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 95%
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 200 lbs/sq ft or 977 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,98
      - Longitudinal: 1,21
      - Overall: 1,00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

[Korpen]

Ahoj!
343mm is a historical calibre - a round thirteen-and-a-half  inches. And 1250 lbs was the historical shell weight. A heavier, 1400 lbs shell was introduced later. And 1000 lbs is the shell weight of Habsburg 12 inchers.

343mm is exactly 13,022 inches (Zoll), and a pound (Pfund) 560grams. So a 560kg shell is 1000 pounds.

[Walter]

???
Don't quite get that, Korpen. On what are your calculations based? Definitely not the Imperial system.

[Borys]

Ahoj!
We are using different inches and pounds then.
Imperial inch = 2,54cm
Imperial pound = 0,454 kg

13 inches x 25,4mm = 330 mm
13,5 inches x 25,4mm = 343 mm

1000 x 454grams = 454 kg

Borys

[maddox]

What Borys writes is correct according to my conversion tabels and program.

Another way to look at is the shellweight of 1250lbs.  That equals 566,99 kg.

[Korpen]

???
Don't quite get that, Korpen. On what are your calculations based? Definitely not the Imperial system.

Imperial? Why would anybody but the UNK use that?
As it is an austrian ship I took for granted that Austrian-Hungarian messurements were used.
So one pound = 560g and one inch 26,34mm.

[Borys]

Ahoj!
I did not dwelve into A-H lore THAT deep! I applaud your research!
Learning yet another measurment system is too much for me ...
Borys

[Walter]

As it is an austrian ship I took for granted that Austrian-Hungarian messurements were used.

Austrian-Hungarian measurements?! Why would anybody use that here on the board when Spring Style and Spring Sharp  only use Imperial and Metric? :)

Learning yet another measurment system is too much for me ...

Not sure if there are any other ones still in existence that are in use today, but considering that Austria-Hungary no longer exists, I doubt that Austrian-Hungarian measurements are used today. So you need to ask yourself this question: "Why should I learn another measurement system that is not even used these days?" :)

[Borys]

Ahoj!
Well, I learnt the Imperial Measure system ...
Borys

[maddox]

There are more messurment systems in use over the world.
But  for Springsharp, it's Imperial, with the lbs, inch and feet and metric with kg , mm and meters.

And Springsharp still is the core of the Nverse.

[Korpen]

As it is an austrian ship I took for granted that Austrian-Hungarian messurements were used.

Austrian-Hungarian measurements?! Why would anybody use that here on the board when Spring Style and Spring Sharp  only use Imperial and Metric? :)

Well, one arcane measurement system is as good as another. And as British measurements have never been used in AH, I see no logic in using it here either, the old AH system then seemed more logic.
IRL I think it went out of style around 1890 in AH, and metric were used from then on.

It is kind of fun all the confusion that could result from all the different systems, I just read about a Swedish railway (1870-ish) were the track was laid with English inches (English engineer), the cars built to Swedish inches and the locomotive from Germany with sachean inches... Neither train nor cars fitted the track... :)

_{And I have found something I can have fun being annoying and obnoxious about here in the process.}

[Ithekro]

I am glad I never decided to make a new system for Rohan.  Just using Imperial instead of an even older system.  I still use Troy ounces for money, but that is for fun.

12" of armor is not all that thin.  What type of armor is this?

[Borys]

KC