Would I have any reason to build this?

[Tanthalas]

Italia-BB-1906, Italia Battleship laid down 1906

Displacement:
   24,401 t light; 25,747 t standard; 27,550 t normal; 28,992 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   562.00 ft / 562.00 ft x 83.00 ft (Bulges 93.00 ft) x 28.00 ft (normal load)
   171.30 m / 171.30 m x 25.30 m (Bulges 28.35 m)  x 8.53 m

Armament:
      12 - 11.00" / 279 mm guns (4x3 guns), 665.50lbs / 301.87kg shells, 1906 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
      20 - 5.00" / 127 mm guns in single mounts, 62.50lbs / 28.35kg shells, 1906 Model
     Quick firing guns in casemate mounts
     on side, all amidships
      2 - 3.00" / 76.2 mm guns (1x2 guns), 13.50lbs / 6.12kg shells, 1906 Model
     Quick firing guns in a deck mount with hoist
     on centreline aft, all raised guns - superfiring
      24 - 0.75" / 19.1 mm guns (12x2 guns), 0.21lbs / 0.10kg shells, 1906 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 9,268 lbs / 4,204 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 150
   2 - 21.0" / 533.4 mm submerged torpedo tubes

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   13.0" / 330 mm   403.07 ft / 122.86 m   13.00 ft / 3.96 m
   Ends:   8.00" / 203 mm   158.91 ft / 48.44 m   13.00 ft / 3.96 m
   Upper:   8.00" / 203 mm   403.07 ft / 122.86 m   8.00 ft / 2.44 m
     Main Belt covers 110 % of normal length

   - Torpedo Bulkhead and Bulges:
      2.00" / 51 mm   403.07 ft / 122.86 m   26.95 ft / 8.21 m

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   12.0" / 305 mm   8.00" / 203 mm      12.0" / 305 mm
   2nd:   4.00" / 102 mm   2.00" / 51 mm            -
   3rd:   1.00" / 25 mm   1.00" / 25 mm            -
   4th:   1.00" / 25 mm   1.00" / 25 mm            -

   - Armour deck: 3.00" / 76 mm, Conning tower: 13.00" / 330 mm

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 4 shafts, 28,641 ihp / 21,366 Kw = 20.00 kts
   Range 5,000nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 3,246 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   1,068 - 1,389

Cost:
   £2.400 million / $9.600 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1,159 tons, 4.2 %
   Armour: 10,253 tons, 37.2 %
      - Belts: 4,625 tons, 16.8 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 804 tons, 2.9 %
      - Armament: 2,568 tons, 9.3 %
      - Armour Deck: 1,999 tons, 7.3 %
      - Conning Tower: 255 tons, 0.9 %
   Machinery: 4,092 tons, 14.9 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 8,599 tons, 31.2 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 3,149 tons, 11.4 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 300 tons, 1.1 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     29,813 lbs / 13,523 Kg = 44.8 x 11.0 " / 279 mm shells or 4.7 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.15
   Metacentric height 4.9 ft / 1.5 m
   Roll period: 17.6 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.48
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.49

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.659
   Length to Beam Ratio: 6.04 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 23.71 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 44 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 47
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      26.00 ft / 7.92 m
      - Forecastle (14 %):   26.00 ft / 7.92 m
      - Mid (50 %):      16.00 ft / 4.88 m
      - Quarterdeck (14 %):   16.00 ft / 4.88 m
      - Stern:      16.00 ft / 4.88 m
      - Average freeboard:   19.21 ft / 5.85 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 110.3 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 118.9 %
   Waterplane Area: 36,025 Square feet or 3,347 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 98 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 162 lbs/sq ft or 792 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.97
      - Longitudinal: 1.32
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily


Honestly i cant come up with one, but wow do I like it LOL

[maddox]

1 good reason,  Napoleon the Great.

France does have 1 BB that size on the slips. Getting completed.
With then the biggest guns at sea, the 6 340mm from the beached Greater Napoleon. (another reason to build a BB of enormous size)

[Carthaginian]

Well, it might not have the biggest guns on the water, but going up against her would be like standing in front of a shotgun- there'd be so much steel flying at you, you're bound to get hurt seriously... you just couldn't beat the odds.

[P3D]

Too thick deck armor and weak armament, esp. compared to the guns. Perhaps 3T2+2T2 x 12"?

[Tanthalas]

Too thick deck armor and weak armament, esp. compared to the guns. Perhaps 3T2+2T2 x 12"?

that was the original plan then i thought good god 12 11" guns that would be alot of steel flying around, so i had to toy with it. Im still playing with it, not sure may go back to the 10x12 arangement

[Tanthalas]

Italia-BB-1906, Italia Battleship laid down 1906 mark II

Displacement:
   25,234 t light; 26,653 t standard; 28,500 t normal; 29,978 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   562.00 ft / 562.00 ft x 83.00 ft (Bulges 93.00 ft) x 28.00 ft (normal load)
   171.30 m / 171.30 m x 25.30 m (Bulges 28.35 m)  x 8.53 m

Armament:
      10 - 12.00" / 305 mm guns (4 mounts), 864.00lbs / 391.90kg shells, 1906 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
      20 - 5.00" / 127 mm guns in single mounts, 62.50lbs / 28.35kg shells, 1906 Model
     Quick firing guns in casemate mounts
     on side, all amidships
      2 - 3.00" / 76.2 mm guns (1x2 guns), 13.50lbs / 6.12kg shells, 1906 Model
     Quick firing guns in a deck mount with hoist
     on centreline aft, all raised guns - superfiring
      24 - 0.75" / 19.1 mm guns (12x2 guns), 0.21lbs / 0.10kg shells, 1906 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 9,922 lbs / 4,501 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 150
   2 - 21.0" / 533.4 mm submerged torpedo tubes

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   13.0" / 330 mm   413.97 ft / 126.18 m   13.00 ft / 3.96 m
   Ends:   8.00" / 203 mm   148.01 ft / 45.11 m   13.00 ft / 3.96 m
   Upper:   8.00" / 203 mm   413.97 ft / 126.18 m   8.00 ft / 2.44 m
     Main Belt covers 113 % of normal length

   - Torpedo Bulkhead and Bulges:
      2.00" / 51 mm   413.97 ft / 126.18 m   26.95 ft / 8.21 m

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   13.0" / 330 mm   8.00" / 203 mm      13.0" / 330 mm
   2nd:   4.00" / 102 mm   2.00" / 51 mm            -
   3rd:   1.00" / 25 mm   1.00" / 25 mm            -
   4th:   1.00" / 25 mm   1.00" / 25 mm            -

   - Armour deck: 3.00" / 76 mm, Conning tower: 12.00" / 305 mm

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 4 shafts, 29,462 ihp / 21,979 Kw = 20.00 kts
   Range 5,000nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 3,325 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   1,096 - 1,425

Cost:
   £2.514 million / $10.057 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1,240 tons, 4.4 %
   Armour: 10,728 tons, 37.6 %
      - Belts: 4,673 tons, 16.4 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 826 tons, 2.9 %
      - Armament: 2,947 tons, 10.3 %
      - Armour Deck: 2,041 tons, 7.2 %
      - Conning Tower: 241 tons, 0.8 %
   Machinery: 4,209 tons, 14.8 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 8,787 tons, 30.8 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 3,266 tons, 11.5 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 270 tons, 0.9 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     30,206 lbs / 13,701 Kg = 35.0 x 12.0 " / 305 mm shells or 4.7 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.14
   Metacentric height 4.9 ft / 1.5 m
   Roll period: 17.7 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.50
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.48

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.682
   Length to Beam Ratio: 6.04 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 23.71 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 45 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 47
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      26.00 ft / 7.92 m
      - Forecastle (13 %):   26.00 ft / 7.92 m
      - Mid (50 %):      16.00 ft / 4.88 m
      - Quarterdeck (13 %):   16.00 ft / 4.88 m
      - Stern:      16.00 ft / 4.88 m
      - Average freeboard:   19.16 ft / 5.84 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 111.2 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 118.2 %
   Waterplane Area: 36,776 Square feet or 3,417 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 97 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 163 lbs/sq ft or 796 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.97
      - Longitudinal: 1.29
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

So more like this?

[Borys]

Ahoj!
I think she deserves 13" or heavier guns.
As usual, you can cut down the number of shells to 100.
A thing of note - SS underestimates shell weight. Italian 12 inchers should have 1000 pound shells.
To save weight on a four turret ships you could drop superifiring altogether - like
Dante Aligheri/ Gangut?
Or maybe try for a Gulio Cesare, with 15x11"?

Borys

[Tanthalas]

Ill get back to her tomorow sometime.  I got sidetracked on another project as usual lol, tbh though in my opinion 12" is as large a gun as we should be making use of at this point... or well at that point anyway.  Its a 1906 ship remember thats Dreadnaught, & South Carolina.  Heck the germans went with 11" guns on their ships of that vintage, England was 12", the US was 12" dont realy know about anyone else though.  She will in all likelyhood be a 2 ship class technology is moving fast right now so i would anticipate the move first to 12X12 then on to 14" guns.

[Borys]

Ahoj!
I missed the 1906 date - sorry. Although in N-verse in some areas technology moved faster.

Borys

[The Rock Doctor]

I'd agree that the deck armor is too thick for the time, ~40 - 50 mm seeming more reasonable.  I personally also think the end and upper belts are too thick, as I broadly go with an upper belt half the thickness of the main belt, and the end belts one third the thickness of the main belt.

For the time, it's a powerful main battery; it may take longer to sink an enemy battleship on its own, but it won't take too long to soften up the target for a torpedo-attack by accompanying light forces.

[Korpen]

Italia-BB-1906, Italia Battleship laid down 1906 mark II

Defiantly a very powerful ship. The only real flaw I can see in the design is that it is excessive, too big and too heavily armoured. Unless I am very much mistaken, building a pair of theses ships would use up every single scrap of Italian production capacity for three and a half year. And while good, they are not THAT good.

Reducing the dack to around 50mm, and the end (and maybe the upper) belt to around 10-15cm would allow the ship to be several thousands tons smaller, without having too large an impact on her fighting ability.

[Desertfox]

Well you could increase your prodiction capacity... ;)