Habsburgs Panzerkreuzer 1909

Started by Borys, September 01, 2007, 02:26:24 AM

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Borys

Ahoj!
Inspired by the Italians ...

SMS Radetzky, Habsburgs Panzerkrezuer laid down 1909

Displacement:
   11 328 t light; 11 906 t standard; 13 608 t normal; 14 970 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   480,00 ft / 480,00 ft x 74,00 ft x 26,50 ft (normal load)
   146,30 m / 146,30 m x 22,56 m  x 8,08 m

Armament:
      8 - 9,50" / 241 mm guns (4x2 guns), 400,00lbs / 181,44kg shells, 1909 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on side, evenly spread, 1 raised mount
     Aft Main mounts separated by engine room
      10 - 6,00" / 152 mm guns in single mounts, 100,00lbs / 45,36kg shells, 1909 Model
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts
     on side, all amidships
     10 guns in hull casemates - Limited use in heavy seas
      12 - 3,00" / 76,2 mm guns in single mounts, 13,50lbs / 6,12kg shells, 1909 Model
     Quick firing guns in casemate mounts
     on side, evenly spread, 4 raised mounts
     4 guns in hull casemates - Limited use in heavy seas
      4 - 0,43" / 11,0 mm guns in single mounts, 0,04lbs / 0,02kg shells, 1909 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 4 362 lbs / 1 979 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 120
   4 - 20,0" / 508 mm submerged torpedo tubes

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   7,00" / 178 mm   280,00 ft / 85,34 m   12,00 ft / 3,66 m
   Ends:   3,00" / 76 mm   200,00 ft / 60,96 m   8,00 ft / 2,44 m
   Upper:   5,00" / 127 mm   280,00 ft / 85,34 m   10,00 ft / 3,05 m
     Main Belt covers 90% of normal length
     Main belt does not fully cover magazines and engineering spaces

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   7,00" / 178 mm   4,00" / 102 mm      6,00" / 152 mm
   2nd:   5,00" / 127 mm         -         1,00" / 25 mm

   - Armour deck: 1,50" / 38 mm, Conning tower: 8,00" / 203 mm

Machinery:
   Coal and oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 4 shafts, 51 171 shp / 38 174 Kw = 26,00 kts
   Range 8 000nm at 12,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 3 064 tons (90% coal)

Complement:
   629 - 818

Cost:
   £1,242 million / $4,967 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 584 tons, 4,3%
   Armour: 3 483 tons, 25,6%
      - Belts: 1 847 tons, 13,6%
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0,0%
      - Armament: 877 tons, 6,4%
      - Armour Deck: 660 tons, 4,9%
      - Conning Tower: 98 tons, 0,7%
   Machinery: 2 533 tons, 18,6%
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 4 528 tons, 33,3%
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2 280 tons, 16,8%
   Miscellaneous weights: 200 tons, 1,5%

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     13 289 lbs / 6 028 Kg = 31,0 x 9,5 " / 241 mm shells or 1,8 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,10
   Metacentric height 3,8 ft / 1,2 m
   Roll period: 15,9 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 65 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,44
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1,11

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has raised forecastle
   Block coefficient: 0,506
   Length to Beam Ratio: 6,49 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 21,91 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 58 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 58
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -5,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      28,00 ft / 8,53 m
      - Forecastle (25%):   25,50 ft / 7,77 m (17,00 ft / 5,18 m aft of break)
      - Mid (50%):      17,00 ft / 5,18 m
      - Quarterdeck (15%):   17,00 ft / 5,18 m
      - Stern:      17,00 ft / 5,18 m
      - Average freeboard:   19,38 ft / 5,91 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 99,2%
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 122,5%
   Waterplane Area: 23 796 Square feet or 2 211 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 101%
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 124 lbs/sq ft or 604 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,92
      - Longitudinal: 2,09
      - Overall: 1,00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent

I'm not sure, however, what would my fleet use it for ....
Borys
NEDS - Not Enough Deck Space for all those guns and torpedos;
Bambi must DIE!

The Rock Doctor

I think your powerplant needs to be trimmed back to 48,000 shp.

I agree it's good to have a use for things before they get built...

Carthaginian

Powerplant is above 48k SHP.
I think that the main belt warning will come back to haunt it.
If that could be fixed, it's not a bad ship.
So 'ere's to you, Fuzzy-Wuzzy, at your 'ome in old Baghdad;
You're a pore benighted 'eathen but a first-class fightin' man;
We gives you your certificate, an' if you want it signed
We'll come an' 'ave a romp with you whenever you're inclined.

Borys

#3
Ahoj!
Thanks guys. Now fixed. The difference a single knot makes ....

Borys

SMS Radetzky II, Habsburgs Panzerkrezuer laid down 1909

Displacement:
   10 871 t light; 11 439 t standard; 13 103 t normal; 14 434 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   475,00 ft / 475,00 ft x 72,00 ft x 26,50 ft (normal load)
   144,78 m / 144,78 m x 21,95 m  x 8,08 m

Armament:
      8 - 9,50" / 241 mm guns (4x2 guns), 400,00lbs / 181,44kg shells, 1909 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on side, evenly spread, 1 raised mount
     Aft Main mounts separated by engine room
      10 - 6,00" / 152 mm guns in single mounts, 100,00lbs / 45,36kg shells, 1909 Model
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts
     on side, all amidships
     10 guns in hull casemates - Limited use in heavy seas
      12 - 3,00" / 76,2 mm guns in single mounts, 13,50lbs / 6,12kg shells, 1909 Model
     Quick firing guns in casemate mounts
     on side, evenly spread, 4 raised mounts
     4 guns in hull casemates - Limited use in heavy seas
      4 - 0,43" / 11,0 mm guns in single mounts, 0,04lbs / 0,02kg shells, 1909 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 4 362 lbs / 1 979 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 120
   4 - 20,0" / 508 mm submerged torpedo tubes

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   7,00" / 178 mm   300,00 ft / 91,44 m   12,00 ft / 3,66 m
   Ends:   3,00" / 76 mm   180,00 ft / 54,86 m   8,00 ft / 2,44 m
   Upper:   5,00" / 127 mm   300,00 ft / 91,44 m   10,00 ft / 3,05 m
     Main Belt covers 97% of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   8,00" / 203 mm   4,00" / 102 mm      6,00" / 152 mm
   2nd:   5,00" / 127 mm         -         1,00" / 25 mm

   - Armour deck: 1,50" / 38 mm, Conning tower: 8,00" / 203 mm

Machinery:
   Coal and oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 4 shafts, 42 717 shp / 31 867 Kw = 25,00 kts
   Range 8 000nm at 12,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 2 995 tons (90% coal)

Complement:
   612 - 796

Cost:
   £1,167 million / $4,668 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 584 tons, 4,5%
   Armour: 3 539 tons, 27,0%
      - Belts: 1 912 tons, 14,6%
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0,0%
      - Armament: 895 tons, 6,8%
      - Armour Deck: 636 tons, 4,9%
      - Conning Tower: 96 tons, 0,7%
   Machinery: 2 115 tons, 16,1%
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 4 384 tons, 33,5%
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2 231 tons, 17,0%
   Miscellaneous weights: 250 tons, 1,9%

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     13 659 lbs / 6 196 Kg = 31,9 x 9,5 " / 241 mm shells or 1,9 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,10
   Metacentric height 3,6 ft / 1,1 m
   Roll period: 15,9 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 65 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,49
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1,20

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has raised forecastle
   Block coefficient: 0,506
   Length to Beam Ratio: 6,60 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 21,79 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 56 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 54
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -5,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      26,00 ft / 7,92 m
      - Forecastle (25%):   24,50 ft / 7,47 m (17,00 ft / 5,18 m aft of break)
      - Mid (50%):      17,00 ft / 5,18 m
      - Quarterdeck (15%):   17,00 ft / 5,18 m
      - Stern:      17,00 ft / 5,18 m
      - Average freeboard:   19,03 ft / 5,80 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 92,8%
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 121,2%
   Waterplane Area: 22 912 Square feet or 2 129 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 103%
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 123 lbs/sq ft or 602 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,92
      - Longitudinal: 2,13
      - Overall: 1,00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

NEDS - Not Enough Deck Space for all those guns and torpedos;
Bambi must DIE!

Carthaginian

Biggest difference is in price...
Those last few tenths of a knot can raise the price by a dollar or more!
So 'ere's to you, Fuzzy-Wuzzy, at your 'ome in old Baghdad;
You're a pore benighted 'eathen but a first-class fightin' man;
We gives you your certificate, an' if you want it signed
We'll come an' 'ave a romp with you whenever you're inclined.

Tanthalas

"He either fears his fate too much,
Or his desserts are small,
Who dares not put it to the touch,
To win or lose it all!"

James Graham, 5th Earl of Montrose
1612 to 1650
Royalist General during the English Civil War

Borys

#6
Ahoj!
I shamelessly admt to using your hull dimensions as starting point.
She's not as good as I'd had liked, but a quite good AC nonetheless.
Borys
NEDS - Not Enough Deck Space for all those guns and torpedos;
Bambi must DIE!

Tanthalas

check out the final production 10" in my post
"He either fears his fate too much,
Or his desserts are small,
Who dares not put it to the touch,
To win or lose it all!"

James Graham, 5th Earl of Montrose
1612 to 1650
Royalist General during the English Civil War

Borys

#8
Ahoj!
I have more armour cover, am faster, better stability.
You have better seakeeping* and minimally fire platform.

Comparable, tough to make a judgement.

* seakeeping is clculated for maximum speed, which is 2 knots higher in my case, possibly explaining the difference.
Borys
NEDS - Not Enough Deck Space for all those guns and torpedos;
Bambi must DIE!

Tanthalas

 Mine will serve the purpose I intend for her quite nicely I think, Colonial Cruiser to be escorted by 2-3 Light Cruisers so for me Africa/Atlantic squadron(2 squadrons same composition) 2 of the 10" variant and 4-6 light cruisers.
"He either fears his fate too much,
Or his desserts are small,
Who dares not put it to the touch,
To win or lose it all!"

James Graham, 5th Earl of Montrose
1612 to 1650
Royalist General during the English Civil War

Borys

Ahoj!
So you will use her as 2nd class Battleship? Fair enough.

Borys
NEDS - Not Enough Deck Space for all those guns and torpedos;
Bambi must DIE!

Tanthalas

Essentially for the moment yes.  My light battle ship program just isn't working the way I would like it to, just not fast enough, or able to pack sufficient guns to be the impact type ship I'm looking for hence I decided on 2 smaller cheaper ships to do the job of one more powerful ship... for now
"He either fears his fate too much,
Or his desserts are small,
Who dares not put it to the touch,
To win or lose it all!"

James Graham, 5th Earl of Montrose
1612 to 1650
Royalist General during the English Civil War

Borys

Ahoj!
IMO a quiet valid concept.
Borys
NEDS - Not Enough Deck Space for all those guns and torpedos;
Bambi must DIE!

Korpen

Quote from: Borys on September 01, 2007, 10:47:23 AM
Ahoj!
Thanks guys. Now fixed. The difference a single knot makes ....

Borys

SMS Radetzky II, Habsburgs Panzerkrezuer laid down 1909

Not a bad ship by any count, as far as I can see she is optimized for destroying light and protected cruisers, she would be at best equal with older armoured cruisers.
Card-carrying member of the Battlecruiser Fan Club.

Borys

Ahoj!
The question now is - build two Radetzkyy's, or five of the 5x6 inch 4600 ton cruisers?

Borys
NEDS - Not Enough Deck Space for all those guns and torpedos;
Bambi must DIE!