The Quest for Oil...

[maddox]

I reckon that if a player is seeking to take on territory that will yield oil in the future, he should have to be able to provide some kind of rational basis for the acquisition in 1908 ("Cheap labor", "Iron", or whatever).  If he fails to do so, the mods should make it difficult for that player to retain the territory...

That is what I had in mind if" a player" was taking bounds on IRL future stocks....

[Carthaginian]

I reckon that if a player is seeking to take on territory that will yield oil in the future, he should have to be able to provide some kind of rational basis for the acquisition in 1908 ("Cheap labor", "Iron", or whatever).  If he fails to do so, the mods should make it difficult for that player to retain the territory...

That is what I had in mind if" a player" was taking bounds on IRL future stocks....

I agree fully. No nation would randomly have jumped the Sauds in the 1850's in order to steal their giant sandbox on the hunch that there might be something there that will be invaluable in 50 years. Shoot, we don't even try to do stuff like that NOW, and the world is a lot shorter on resources of allkinds (including cheap labor).

[Ithekro]

The Mark seems more culturally driven than resource driven in its conflicts and efforts in the New World.  Social interations I suppose drive the Rohirrm into action rather than where their next economic opportunity comes from.  I suppose the Rohan is a nation (or nations) that is comfortable being where they are in the world and see no point in much expasion for expansion sake (or manifest destiny).  In a way like China feels no need to expand.

[miketr]

The info is very interesting.

Even if nothing is done with the info then my weekend hasn't been a total waste.   My wife kept on asking me why I need to check the numbers on stuff for a post on one of boards, she thinks I am more than a little nuts.

My primary concern with introducing too much oil-related work is that we'd probably also need to do this for a few other key items to really be fair:  coal, iron, foodstuffs.  Things would get a bit complicated; while I can handle it, to a point, it may be easier for all concerned to just specify who your supplier is and let the mods work out the effects of an embargo.

I would not want to go down this path for many resources other wise as was pointed out to me in another thread we could just play Victoria, Hearts of Iron, etc.

Also with few exceptions just about every industrialized nation has SOME Iron and Coal resource.  Some coal fields are better than others and some coal is better than others but in the end few nations could be totally cut off.  As to food once the haber process is fully in place other than Island nations you can't starve a nation out.  Germany in WW1 nearly did but that had many reasons and by the 1920's I don't think it will be possible to starve out anyone but say...  New Swiss home Islands, Japan and United Norman Kingdom Home Islands.  Odds are those islands are over populated relative to their carrying capacity and a tight blockade could take them down.  No need to track food for that issue. 

Basicly I would think we wouldn't want to track more than 1 or 2 items for player logistics if nothing else.  We want to have fun not do paper work.  If we are going to track a resource I think oil would be it.  Its not going to be critical to our war machines till... the 1920's when we have lot of oil fired ships, aircraft and some mechanized units.  Also from the info I found thats when oil really starts to have a big impact on economic activity.

My attitude is that if we are going to track it, and there have been more than a few questions were people are getting their oil for their oil fired ship designs when they are posted in the design thread we might as well go all the way.    In WW2 at least oil was critically important.

I had spoken to the Mods about the notion of an "industrialization" tech that would bump up a nation's BP output - though I had based my premise on the introduction of mass-production and assembly lines rather than introduction of oil into the economy. 

If you not I am suggesting oil effects IC's production of money.  I agree that mass production tech for BP sounds interesting.

On location - the geologist in me would go nuts seeing oil pools move around but I survived the redrawing of the original map.  I'd be content to have the mods determine where oil might be located in new or re-arranged parts of the map, and let them make a call on when historical fields come into production. 

My thought is it would add a little bit of flavor to the game to go hunting for oil across the world.  I have given other reasons below. 

I reckon that if a player is seeking to take on territory that will yield oil in the future, he should have to be able to provide some kind of rational basis for the acquisition in 1908 ("Cheap labor", "Iron", or whatever).  If he fails to do so, the mods should make it difficult for that player to retain the territory...

True.

Michael

[Borys]

The info is very interesting.

Even if nothing is done with the info then my weekend hasn't been a total waste.   My wife kept on asking me why I need to check the numbers on stuff for a post on one of boards, she thinks I am more than a little nuts.

Tell her I've been doing it for years.
:)

I appreciate your work. However, as noted, this is not an economy game. And the quantities of oil needed today are small. Let us put that problem aside until 1920 or 1930.

Borys

[miketr]

Tell her I've been doing it for years.
:)

I am sure my wifes responce will be something to the effect two nuts opinions don't equal sane.

I appreciate your work. However, as noted, this is not an economy game. And the quantities of opil needed today are small. Let us put that aside until 1920 or 1930.

Borys

Just keep in mind that the advantage of now would allow us to ease into instead of trying to catchup with events of the fly. 

Michael

[Borys]

Tell her I've been doing it for years.
:)

I am sure my wifes responce will be something to the effect two nuts opinions don't equal sane.

Horrify her by revealing that I still managed to breed ...
:)

Borys

[miketr]

I got around to looking into the situation for oil in Mexico now...

http://www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/atlas_mexico/producing_oil_gas_fields.jpg

This map should help and we have the following zones.

North East Zone (Reynosa up near Texas Border) this area has exploration start 1921 on.
North Zone (Tampico down to San Andres) center of Mexican oil fields
Veracruz zone, doesn't kick off till 1953.
South Zone, (near Isthmus of Tehuantepec) noted and explored at this time but not exploited till later.

So near as I can figure at this point the Mexican oil fields are split into two groups on slightly west of Tampico and the other West and North of Tuxpan.

Michael

[Desertfox]

At least three board members will skin you alive with rusty spoons for suggesting we use Excel (a cross between magic and rocket science) for anything.

Well I am studying rocket science and finally have excel, but that doesn't mean I won't help them skin you. ;D After all I like to use the KISS method. More rules? I don't like.

New Switzerland is in a way economy driven, but with a different goal. This latest war is a Trade War not an Oil War. NS has sufficient Oil for its needs (only the NSN uses it) in the Swiss East Indies.

[P3D]

A summary of the oil sources available in Navalism, based more or less  on known pre-WWII fields and production.

A: major exporter (>30m bbl)
B: adequate for home consumption and some export (>2m bbl)
C: minor, fulfilling naval needs but not much else (1-2m bbl)

Europe

Austria B
Romania A
Russia AA

Africa

Orange (Angola) -(C)
Egypt -(C)
Nigeria -(C)

Africa&Middle East
Ottomans - Iraq - (A)
Ottomans - Qatar & Bahrein - (A)
Persia - A

Far East
Dutch East Indies A
DKB C
Japan (Sakhalin) C
Burma C(B)

Americas
Alaska -(C)
NUS C(B)
Peru C(B)
UNK A
CSA AA
Rohan B
Gran Columbia C(AA)
Mesoamerica AA

[Tanthalas]

gah i wish i could find that page again where it told me about Italian oil fields... one of them has bene producing in small amounts since the 1890s, but for my curent military use it would be suficiant >.<

[Korpen]

gah i wish i could find that page again where it told me about Italian oil fields... one of them has bene producing in small amounts since the 1890s, but for my curent military use it would be suficiant >.<

I have never seen any mention of italian oil supplies, or oil in any territory italy holds in this time period.

And what is the point? It will be far cheaper just to buy petroleum reserves on the open market then to try and build up an extraction industry just for some miniscule oil supplies.

[miketr]

There was some oil production in Italy itself, it wasn't much as I recall. 

[P3D]

There's some minimal oil almost in every country, but in quantities that might not be enough for anything significant.

[Tanthalas]

it wasnt /isnt a substantial amount, that siad how much do you realy think we would be using atm?  like i said then it was small not cure how much , now it is only producind 100K barrels a year