Habsburg Kreuzer for 1909 - new

[Borys]

Guns:
- fore - side by side on forecastle
- aft - in triangle, two side by side and aftmost gun on centerline

Carries
- TT + 1 set of relaods - 24 tons
- medium Marconi - 15 tons
- rails and 25 mines - 25 tons
- observation equipment - 15 tons


Kaiserin und Koenigin Marie Theresie, Habsburgs Kleiner Kreuzer laid down 1909

Displacement:
   4 633 t light; 4 785 t standard; 5 321 t normal; 5 749 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   380,52 ft / 380,00 ft x 45,00 ft x 19,80 ft (normal load)
   115,98 m / 115,82 m x 13,72 m  x 6,04 m

Armament:
      2 - 6,00" / 152 mm guns in single mounts, 100,00lbs / 45,36kg shells, 1909 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, all forward, all raised mounts - superfiring
      3 - 6,00" / 152 mm guns in single mounts, 100,00lbs / 45,36kg shells, 1909 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, all aft
      4 - 0,43" / 11,0 mm guns in single mounts, 0,04lbs / 0,02kg shells, 1909 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 500 lbs / 227 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 150
   8 - 20,0" / 508 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   3,00" / 76 mm   325,00 ft / 99,06 m   15,00 ft / 4,57 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 132% of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   1,00" / 25 mm         -         1,00" / 25 mm
   2nd:   1,00" / 25 mm         -         1,00" / 25 mm

   - Armour deck: 1,50" / 38 mm, Conning tower: 2,00" / 51 mm

Machinery:
   Coal and oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 4 shafts, 36 485 shp / 27 217 Kw = 27,00 kts
   Range 6 500nm at 10,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 964 tons (90% coal)

Complement:
   310 - 404

Cost:
   £0,472 million / $1,887 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 68 tons, 1,3%
   Armour: 954 tons, 17,9%
      - Belts: 591 tons, 11,1%
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0,0%
      - Armament: 19 tons, 0,4%
      - Armour Deck: 331 tons, 6,2%
      - Conning Tower: 13 tons, 0,2%
   Machinery: 1 806 tons, 33,9%
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 1 735 tons, 32,6%
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 688 tons, 12,9%
   Miscellaneous weights: 80 tons, 1,3%

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     4 243 lbs / 1 925 Kg = 39,3 x 6,0 " / 152 mm shells or 0,8 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,19
   Metacentric height 2,1 ft / 0,6 m
   Roll period: 13,1 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 76 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,40
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1,52

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has raised forecastle
   Block coefficient: 0,550
   Length to Beam Ratio: 8,44 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 19,49 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 63 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 1,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: -1,00 ft / -0,30 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      30,00 ft / 9,14 m
      - Forecastle (20%):   26,00 ft / 7,92 m (18,00 ft / 5,49 m aft of break)
      - Mid (50%):      18,00 ft / 5,49 m
      - Quarterdeck (15%):   18,00 ft / 5,49 m
      - Stern:      18,00 ft / 5,49 m
      - Average freeboard:   19,92 ft / 6,07 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 121,4%
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 93,4%
   Waterplane Area: 11 934 Square feet or 1 109 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 103%
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 72 lbs/sq ft or 350 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,86
      - Longitudinal: 3,97
      - Overall: 1,00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

[Borys]

Ahoj!
Any good?
I'm worried about the belt, does it cover enough? Not too much under the water? I can change the MB to 12 feet, and add a 3 inch thick and 3 foot wide Upper Belt above it.

Borys

[maddox]

Not a ship France would build.
But she seems ok for her purpose, doing a bit of everything.

[Borys]

Ahoj!
The Habsburg navy considers small cruisers to be a maedchen fur alles, i.e. a handymaid for all types of jobs. Austria does not have the resources to build narrowly specialised ships.
Borys

[Korpen]

Not a bad ship, but do I even need to mention that I think she is undergunned? ;)
I think the armour is fine, nice and deep and giving the ship excellent resilience against small calibre (<10cm) fire at all ranges.

So I guess she will perform well both on colonial station or as a fleet scout.
While her speed, protection and sea keeping makes her good for such independent missions, her lack of firepower makes her unsuited for operations in direct support of TB flotillas and battle line.

[The Rock Doctor]

This is not significantly different compared to a GC Galapagos class, except several hundred tonnes heavier.  I think you could shave down the block-coefficient to around .45, and reduce the freeboard, and you could get the same characteristics on a smaller hull.

[Borys]

Ahoj!
Colonial stations, commerce raiding, fleet scout - that's her game ... battleline support - I'd need a 6000+ tonne ship for that.
I quite like what the 800 tonnes differnce versus the Glapagos buys me. I'd like more mine carrying capacity, but sometimes you just can't have everything ...

Borys

[Korpen]

Ahoj!
Colonial stations, commerce raiding, fleet scout - that's her game ... battleline support - I'd need a 6000+ tonne ship for that.
I quite like what the 800 tonnes differnce versus the Glapagos buys me. I'd like more mine carrying capacity, but sometimes you just can't have everything ...

Borys

Hm, that was one way of looking at what a screening ship would be. But would not a 6kton+ ship really be to large to be sent into a melee against enemy torpedo boats and cruisers?

[P3D]

The belt is IMO too deep. 10-12' should be enough. Historical designs did not have more.

[Borys]

Now with 12' belt:


Kaiserin und Koenigin Marie Theresie, Habsburgs Kleiner Kreuzer laid down 1909

Displacement:
   4 633 t light; 4 785 t standard; 5 321 t normal; 5 749 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   380,52 ft / 380,00 ft x 45,00 ft x 19,80 ft (normal load)
   115,98 m / 115,82 m x 13,72 m  x 6,04 m

Armament:
      2 - 6,00" / 152 mm guns in single mounts, 100,00lbs / 45,36kg shells, 1909 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, all forward, all raised mounts - superfiring
      3 - 6,00" / 152 mm guns in single mounts, 100,00lbs / 45,36kg shells, 1909 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, all aft
      4 - 0,43" / 11,0 mm guns in single mounts, 0,04lbs / 0,02kg shells, 1909 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 500 lbs / 227 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 150
   8 - 20,0" / 508 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   4,00" / 102 mm   303,00 ft / 92,35 m   12,00 ft / 3,66 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 123% of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   1,00" / 25 mm         -         1,00" / 25 mm
   2nd:   1,00" / 25 mm         -         1,00" / 25 mm

   - Armour deck: 1,50" / 38 mm, Conning tower: 2,00" / 51 mm

Machinery:
   Coal and oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 4 shafts, 36 485 shp / 27 217 Kw = 27,00 kts
   Range 6 500nm at 10,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 964 tons (90% coal)

Complement:
   310 - 404

Cost:
   £0,472 million / $1,887 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 68 tons, 1,3%
   Armour: 958 tons, 18,0%
      - Belts: 595 tons, 11,2%
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0,0%
      - Armament: 19 tons, 0,4%
      - Armour Deck: 331 tons, 6,2%
      - Conning Tower: 13 tons, 0,2%
   Machinery: 1 806 tons, 33,9%
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 1 721 tons, 32,3%
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 688 tons, 12,9%
   Miscellaneous weights: 80 tons, 1,5%

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     4 263 lbs / 1 934 Kg = 39,5 x 6,0 " / 152 mm shells or 0,8 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,22
   Metacentric height 2,2 ft / 0,7 m
   Roll period: 12,8 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,38
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1,52

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has raised forecastle
   Block coefficient: 0,550
   Length to Beam Ratio: 8,44 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 19,49 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 63 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 46
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 1,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: -1,00 ft / -0,30 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      30,00 ft / 9,14 m
      - Forecastle (20%):   26,00 ft / 7,92 m (18,00 ft / 5,49 m aft of break)
      - Mid (50%):      18,00 ft / 5,49 m
      - Quarterdeck (15%):   18,00 ft / 5,49 m
      - Stern:      18,00 ft / 5,49 m
      - Average freeboard:   19,92 ft / 6,07 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 121,6%
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 93,4%
   Waterplane Area: 11 934 Square feet or 1 109 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 103%
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 71 lbs/sq ft or 347 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,85
      - Longitudinal: 3,93
      - Overall: 1,00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

[Borys]

Ahoj!
Colonial stations, commerce raiding, fleet scout - that's her game ... battleline support - I'd need a 6000+ tonne ship for that.

Hm, that was one way of looking at what a screening ship would be. But would not a 6kton+ ship really be to large to be sent into a melee against enemy torpedo boats and cruisers?

Hmm, I think we understand "battline support" differently. To me it means something along the lines of German 8x15cm cruisers or RN "Towns" - a ship with strong artillery to beat of massed GTB attacks. I'd gladly build a couple of "Towns" or something like that. I could even consider buying 5,5" weapons from Gra Colombia or France as to put more guns them, with speed limited to 25-26 knots.

Borys