Turrent Farms...

[Desertfox]

Need guns? ;D

The Swiss Turrent Farm...

Thunder, New Switzerland Heavy Cruiser laid down 1912

Displacement:
   15,301 t light; 16,191 t standard; 20,590 t normal; 24,109 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   700.00 ft / 700.00 ft x 71.00 ft x 29.00 ft (normal load)
   213.36 m / 213.36 m x 21.64 m  x 8.84 m

Armament:
      16 - 8.00" / 203 mm guns (8x2 guns), 256.00lbs / 116.12kg shells, 1912 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
      20 - 4.00" / 102 mm guns in single mounts, 32.00lbs / 14.51kg shells, 1912 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts
     on side, all amidships, all raised mounts - superfiring
      8 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm guns (4x2 guns), 1.95lbs / 0.89kg shells, 1912 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 4,752 lbs / 2,155 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 175
   12 - 18.0" / 457.2 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   7.00" / 178 mm   300.00 ft / 91.44 m   10.00 ft / 3.05 m
   Ends:   4.00" / 102 mm   400.00 ft / 121.92 m   10.00 ft / 3.05 m
     Main Belt covers 66 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   7.00" / 178 mm   4.00" / 102 mm      7.00" / 178 mm

   - Armour deck: 3.00" / 76 mm, Conning tower: 7.00" / 178 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Electric motors, 4 shafts, 64,020 shp / 47,759 Kw = 27.00 kts
   Range 15,000nm at 15.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 7,918 tons

Complement:
   859 - 1,117

Cost:
   £1.392 million / $5.567 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 594 tons, 2.9 %
   Armour: 4,918 tons, 23.9 %
      - Belts: 1,533 tons, 7.4 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 1,433 tons, 7.0 %
      - Armour Deck: 1,838 tons, 8.9 %
      - Conning Tower: 113 tons, 0.6 %
   Machinery: 2,553 tons, 12.4 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 7,087 tons, 34.4 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 5,289 tons, 25.7 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 150 tons, 0.7 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     32,874 lbs / 14,912 Kg = 128.4 x 8.0 " / 203 mm shells or 3.4 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.10
   Metacentric height 3.6 ft / 1.1 m
   Roll period: 15.7 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 71 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.71
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.51

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.500
   Length to Beam Ratio: 9.86 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 26.46 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 43 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 47
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      30.00 ft / 9.14 m
      - Forecastle (30 %):   21.00 ft / 6.40 m
      - Mid (50 %):      21.00 ft / 6.40 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   21.00 ft / 6.40 m
      - Stern:      21.00 ft / 6.40 m
      - Average freeboard:   22.08 ft / 6.73 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 64.6 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 135.3 %
   Waterplane Area: 33,114 Square feet or 3,076 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 138 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 129 lbs/sq ft or 628 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.97
      - Longitudinal: 1.27
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

Based on:
http://www.combinedfleet.com/furashita/kamina_f.htm

[P3D]

You don't want to see the hit location table for this ship...

[swamphen]

'Thunder'. The noise this ship makes when (not if) a Golden Twinkee is scored.

[Ithekro]

Need guns?  ;D

Nope, got plenty.  Thanks.

Valandil

Rohan Combat Cruiser laid down 1906 (Engine 1909)

Displacement:
   13,170 t light; 13,915 t standard; 15,500 t normal; 16,706 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   520.00 ft / 520.00 ft x 73.00 ft x 24.00 ft (normal load)
   158.50 m / 158.50 m x 22.25 m  x 7.32 m

Armament:
      8 - 9.00" / 229 mm guns (4x2 guns), 364.50lbs / 165.33kg shells, 1906 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
      4 - 9.00" / 229 mm guns in single mounts, 364.50lbs / 165.33kg shells, 1906 Model
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts
     on side, evenly spread
      12 - 4.50" / 114 mm guns in single mounts, 45.56lbs / 20.67kg shells, 1906 Model
     Quick firing guns in casemate mounts
     on side, evenly spread
      6 - 1.50" / 38.1 mm guns in single mounts, 1.69lbs / 0.77kg shells, 1906 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
      6 - 0.75" / 19.1 mm guns in single mounts, 0.21lbs / 0.10kg shells, 1906 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on centreline, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 4,932 lbs / 2,237 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 150

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   9.00" / 229 mm   340.00 ft / 103.63 m   11.00 ft / 3.35 m
   Ends:   3.00" / 76 mm   180.00 ft / 54.86 m   11.00 ft / 3.35 m
   Upper:   5.00" / 127 mm   340.00 ft / 103.63 m   10.00 ft / 3.05 m
     Main Belt covers 101 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   9.00" / 229 mm   5.00" / 127 mm      9.00" / 229 mm
   2nd:   5.00" / 127 mm         -               -
   3rd:   5.00" / 127 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 2.00" / 51 mm, Conning tower: 9.00" / 229 mm

Machinery:
   Coal and oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 46,000 shp / 34,316 Kw = 24.85 kts
   Range 7,500nm at 12.00 kts (Bunkerage = 2,852 tons)

Complement:
   693 - 902

Cost:
   £1.288 million / $5.154 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 617 tons, 4.0 %
   Armour: 4,860 tons, 31.4 %
      - Belts: 2,408 tons, 15.5 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 1,332 tons, 8.6 %
      - Armour Deck: 1,000 tons, 6.5 %
      - Conning Tower: 121 tons, 0.8 %
   Machinery: 2,212 tons, 14.3 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 5,382 tons, 34.7 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,330 tons, 15.0 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 100 tons, 0.6 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     20,094 lbs / 9,115 Kg = 55.1 x 9.0 " / 229 mm shells or 2.5 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.04
   Metacentric height 3.4 ft / 1.0 m
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.72
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.25

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.595
   Length to Beam Ratio: 7.12 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 22.80 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 54 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 56
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      26.00 ft / 7.92 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   22.00 ft / 6.71 m
      - Mid (50 %):      20.00 ft / 6.10 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   18.00 ft / 5.49 m
      - Stern:      18.00 ft / 5.49 m
      - Average freeboard:   20.37 ft / 6.21 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 78.4 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 148.0 %
   Waterplane Area: 27,022 Square feet or 2,510 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 108 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 131 lbs/sq ft or 640 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.94
      - Longitudinal: 1.72
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

[Desertfox]

I wouldn't bet on it Swampy, the ridicously overgunned Dutch Frigate (9 main gun turrents!)survived 2 turrent hits. NS has seen the effects of light caliber shells on BBs too many times.I wont be going with AoN. A couple of these with a couple of DD squadrons capping a battleline's T could wreak havoc.

[P3D]

Many turrets - magazines take up a lot of space - a penetrating belt hit has a very good chance to find a magazine instead of an engine.

And what is turrent, if I might ask?

[Ithekro]

A turrent is what the gunnery officer does after a turret has been hit and jammed.

[Korpen]

I wouldn't bet on it Swampy, the ridicously overgunned Dutch Frigate (9 main gun turrents!)survived 2 turrent hits.

Actually it was upper belt + barbarette hits, not turret hits.

And bloody lucky as well, 15+17cm is pretty decent protection, but then luck as truly been going your side so far.

[Desertfox]

Not really, had luck gone my way the entire German Fleet would now rest with the fishes as would Flanders and Leopold. Been looking at Torpedo Hit Rates, enemy hit rates are 2-3 times my own. For a Navy that values torpedoes and has the best in the world, this is not what I want to see.

As for Flanders, she was hit by 12" Capped Shells by brand new 12" guns that rate among the best in the world. Very few ships have the armor to survive those hits at those ranges. Luck was on your side that day, two near GTs.

[Korpen]

Not really, had luck gone my way the entire German Fleet would now rest with the fishes as would Flanders and Leopold. Been looking at Torpedo Hit Rates, enemy hit rates are 2-3 times my own. For a Navy that values torpedoes and has the best in the world, this is not what I want to see.

As for Flanders, she was hit by 12" Capped Shells by brand new 12" guns that rate among the best in the world. Very few ships have the armor to survive those hits at those ranges. Luck was on your side that day, two near GTs.

And the day after two of your ship runs into mines that fail to explode...
And your ships took several turret and barbarette hits that did not affect the ship, most large calibre hit on turrets and barbarettes jam the turret in question, so there you got really lucky. As for the hits on Flandern, that was pretty lucky in it self (P3D said he rolled a 00).
And do not get me started on 2nd Naturna, a LC that outshoot's a AF, and manage to jam turrets with hits from a 15cm gun...
In our fights, luck has defiantly gone your way.

[The Rock Doctor]

Don't forget at least two torpedoes that did not explode against the sides of NSS Hawaii.

[P3D]

Me and Ithekro simulate the battle by different systems.

In mine, penetrating turret hits disable the turret. A non-penetrating hit has a chance to do so. Smaller the turret, and larger the shell...
Every turret and barbette has 1-3% chance to get hit (all depending on size). The 00 Korpen refers to was the chance to score TWO hits, not one. So if someone have a total of six turrets, there's a good chance that one would be hit.

I am working on an updated to-hit chance tables.

[Korpen]

Me and Ithekro simulate the battle by different systems.

That I am painfully aware of, one of my frigates managed to self-destruct two guns, in the number of salvoes fired, the probability for that is around 1 in 100 000, luck was not with the Netherlands in that battle...

[Desertfox]

He, he, here we are arguing who is the luckiest! Hawaii is definately a lucky ship. But Im more interested in all those torpedoes which didn't even hit the enemy. 1st Solomons 40 Torps 1 hit, 2nd Solomons 40 Torps 1 hit, 3rd Solomons 40 Torps 1 hit, 3 battles 2.5% hit rate.

As for Natuna if that's luck I don't want any of it. My Stealth Destroyers where detected too early. Luck was most certainly not with the Swiss there.

The luckiest hit award should probably go to Blucher. His hit on Atair probably save him from joining the fishes and sank Rigel. That is luck.

[Korpen]

He, he, here we are arguing who is the luckiest! Hawaii is definately a lucky ship. But Im more interested in all those torpedoes which didn't even hit the enemy. 1st Solomons 40 Torps 1 hit, 2nd Solomons 40 Torps 1 hit, 3rd Solomons 40 Torps 1 hit, 3 battles 2.5% hit rate.

2,5% seems about the hit percentage I would expect against a manoeuvring enemy, so that Is not really lack of luck but the expected outcome.