New Swiss Destroyers 1909

[Desertfox]

A couple of new destroyer designs. My destroyers will stay at 27kts untill I can get the next engine tech level, at which point the designs will be modified to fit the new engines.

These ships will form the core of the Swiss Destroyer Fleet, they are basiclly a smaller improved Van Hake.

William Tell class, New Switzerland Destroyer laid down 1909

Displacement:
   571 t light; 603 t standard; 751 t normal; 869 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   270.00 ft / 270.00 ft x 25.00 ft x 9.05 ft (normal load)
   82.30 m / 82.30 m x 7.62 m  x 2.76 m

Armament:
      3 - 4.00" / 102 mm guns in single mounts, 32.00lbs / 14.51kg shells, 1909 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts
     on centreline, evenly spread
     Aft Main mounts separated by engine room
      8 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm guns (4x2 guns), 1.95lbs / 0.88kg shells, 1909 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
      4 - 0.50" / 12.7 mm guns in single mounts, 0.06lbs / 0.03kg shells, 1909 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 112 lbs / 51 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 240
   4 - 19.7" / 500.38 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   0.50" / 13 mm         -               -

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Electric motors, 2 shafts, 11,433 shp / 8,529 Kw = 27.00 kts
   Range 5,200nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 266 tons

Complement:
   71 - 93

Cost:
   £0.082 million / $0.327 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 14 tons, 1.9 %
   Armour: 3 tons, 0.4 %
      - Belts: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 3 tons, 0.4 %
      - Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Conning Tower: 0 tons, 0.0 %
   Machinery: 357 tons, 47.5 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 183 tons, 24.4 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 179 tons, 23.9 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 14 tons, 1.9 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     230 lbs / 104 Kg = 7.2 x 4.0 " / 102 mm shells or 0.2 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.53
   Metacentric height 1.3 ft / 0.4 m
   Roll period: 9.2 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 71 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.19
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.21

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.430
   Length to Beam Ratio: 10.80 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 16.43 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 62 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 59
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      14.00 ft / 4.27 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   12.00 ft / 3.66 m
      - Mid (40 %):      10.00 ft / 3.05 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   10.00 ft / 3.05 m
      - Stern:      9.00 ft / 2.74 m
      - Average freeboard:   10.69 ft / 3.26 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 170.8 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 75.1 %
   Waterplane Area: 4,239 Square feet or 394 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 64 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 22 lbs/sq ft or 107 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.49
      - Longitudinal: 1.42
      - Overall: 0.54
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is cramped
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

Misc Weight:
4t Torpedoes
4t Minesweeping gear
4t Night Fighting Mods 'Black Cats'
2t Hydrophones




***



A bigger Destroyer Leader version of the William Tells, adds 2 guns and a wireless.

Kidd class, New Switzerland Super Destroyer laid down 1909

Displacement:
   740 t light; 784 t standard; 955 t normal; 1,092 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   290.00 ft / 290.00 ft x 27.00 ft x 9.70 ft (normal load)
   88.39 m / 88.39 m x 8.23 m  x 2.96 m

Armament:
      5 - 4.00" / 102 mm guns in single mounts, 32.00lbs / 14.51kg shells, 1909 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on centreline, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts
      8 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm guns (4x2 guns), 1.95lbs / 0.88kg shells, 1909 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
      4 - 0.50" / 12.7 mm guns in single mounts, 0.06lbs / 0.03kg shells, 1909 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 176 lbs / 80 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 240
   4 - 19.7" / 500.38 mm above water torpedoes

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 12,915 shp / 9,635 Kw = 27.00 kts
   Range 5,200nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 308 tons

Complement:
   85 - 111

Cost:
   £0.106 million / $0.422 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 22 tons, 2.3 %
   Machinery: 437 tons, 45.8 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 257 tons, 26.9 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 215 tons, 22.5 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 24 tons, 2.5 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     292 lbs / 133 Kg = 9.1 x 4.0 " / 102 mm shells or 0.2 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.38
   Metacentric height 1.2 ft / 0.4 m
   Roll period: 10.2 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.58
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.22

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.440
   Length to Beam Ratio: 10.74 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 17.03 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 61 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 57
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      14.00 ft / 4.27 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   12.00 ft / 3.66 m
      - Mid (50 %):      12.00 ft / 3.66 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   10.00 ft / 3.05 m
      - Stern:      9.00 ft / 2.74 m
      - Average freeboard:   11.44 ft / 3.49 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 169.4 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 87.8 %
   Waterplane Area: 4,955 Square feet or 460 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 69 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 27 lbs/sq ft or 130 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.50
      - Longitudinal: 1.47
      - Overall: 0.55
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is cramped
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily



Misc Weight:
10t Wireless
4t Torpedoes
4t Minesweeping gear
4t Night Fighting Mods 'Black Cats'
2t Hydrophones

[P3D]

Forget the night fighting mods.
And don't even start a debate about it.

[maddox]

What debate?

1908 Technology to improve nightfighting.

Bigger binoculars and searchlights.

Nothing that represents 4 tons of improvements, nor a real improvement.
A searchlight gives the opponent a very visible target.

[The Rock Doctor]

Hydrophones are an option at this time?

[Desertfox]

So apperantly I can't fit flash suppresors, spark screens, and low vis paint on my ships?

The hydrophones are an experimental instalation and are for detecting ships not subs.

[maddox]

Low visible paint works only during 1 periode of the day.

Spark screens are about standard on warships, otherwise the crews would be very busy extinguishing fires.

Flash surpressors.

All the example gives a bit of stealth, but won't increase the fighting power in itself.

Hydrophones were, untill now, a potential secret tech research. But now New Swiss flaunts its Teslanian Invention to the world more will start that research.

[Desertfox]

Stealth is what Im after, notice too the TE drive. Besides the SS2 report is OOC, no one IC would know about the hydrophones.

[swamphen]

But word will leak out. There's a reason some nations use code-names for kit...

notice too the TE drive

Which is, IIRC, not allowed under the Nv3.0 rules yet...

[The Rock Doctor]

When we talk about "low visibility paint", are we talking about "dark blue paint" or "dark blue paint with light-absorbing gunk mixed into it"?

[Desertfox]

Im not concerned if word leaks out on the hydrophones, submarines aren't a threat yet and my ships are being designed with lowered sound signatures. If some one else develops them my ships will be the hardest to detect anyway.

I'm researching TE drive and it should be ready by 1909.

Low vis = dark blue paint. The Johann Wys do have light-absorbing gunk but then they have 50t of misc weight and are experimental plataforms.

[Desertfox]

Another new destroyer class. This one is an improved Fisher with much longer range and unlike the above is designed for coastal defence.

Fritz II class, New Switzerland Destroyer laid down 1909

Displacement:
   470 t light; 487 t standard; 545 t normal; 592 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   251.22 ft / 250.00 ft x 21.00 ft x 9.00 ft (normal load)
   76.57 m / 76.20 m x 6.40 m  x 2.74 m

Armament:
      2 - 4.00" / 102 mm guns in single mounts, 32.00lbs / 14.51kg shells, 1909 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on centreline ends, evenly spread
      2 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm guns (1x2 guns), 1.95lbs / 0.88kg shells, 1909 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mount
     on centreline aft, all raised guns - superfiring
      4 - 0.50" / 12.7 mm guns in single mounts, 0.06lbs / 0.03kg shells, 1909 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 68 lbs / 31 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 150
   4 - 19.7" / 500.38 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   0.50" / 13 mm         -               -

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 14,775 shp / 11,022 Kw = 30.00 kts
   Range 2,400nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 105 tons

Complement:
   56 - 73

Cost:
   £0.064 million / $0.256 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 9 tons, 1.6 %
   Armour: 2 tons, 0.4 %
      - Belts: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 2 tons, 0.4 %
      - Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Conning Tower: 0 tons, 0.0 %
   Machinery: 289 tons, 53.0 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 162 tons, 29.6 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 75 tons, 13.8 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 9 tons, 1.7 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     132 lbs / 60 Kg = 4.1 x 4.0 " / 102 mm shells or 0.2 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.17
   Metacentric height 0.6 ft / 0.2 m
   Roll period: 11.0 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.28
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.00

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.404
   Length to Beam Ratio: 11.90 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 15.81 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 67 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 70
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 5.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      14.00 ft / 4.27 m
      - Forecastle (25 %):   10.00 ft / 3.05 m
      - Mid (50 %):      10.00 ft / 3.05 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   9.00 ft / 2.74 m
      - Stern:      9.00 ft / 2.74 m
      - Average freeboard:   10.08 ft / 3.07 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 184.7 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 57.5 %
   Waterplane Area: 3,239 Square feet or 301 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 38 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 22 lbs/sq ft or 108 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.50
      - Longitudinal: 2.22
      - Overall: 0.58
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is cramped
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform


Mis weight:
5t WIDAR
4t Torpedoes

[The Rock Doctor]

The Johann Wys do have light-absorbing gunk but then they have 50t of misc weight and are experimental plataforms.

Is this technologically feasible in 1908?

What's WIDAR?

[maddox]

A guess on Widar.  Wireless Induced Detection And Ranging.


Light absorbing paints. Matte Black is about the best you can get in 1908. But alas, that isn't the best color to sneak around.

And I talk from LARP experience in that.  The only moment pure black is a good hiding color is in unlightened caves. But then, there is no bad hiding color whatsoever.

[Desertfox]

Is this technologically feasible in 1908?

Not really, again the JWs are just experimental plataforms. The actual DDs just using standard camo paint.

But word will leak out. There's a reason some nations use code-names for kit...

What's WIDAR?

You see? I used code-words and I still have to tell what it is. Maddox nailed it, basiclly very early radar.

[miketr]

You see? I used code-words and I still have to tell what it is. Maddox nailed it, basiclly very early radar.

Fox what part of it's the first decade of the 20th doesn't compute?  The Dutch experiments were just that and required shore based setup and were hardly ready for ship use.  Its like trying to jump from Wilhelm Röntgen work on X-Rays to the A-Bomb there are nearly that many steps between Huelsmeyer's spark gap toy and anything useful that came out in the 30's.

Michael