Richmond Times-Dispatch; Jan-June 1908

[Borys]

At least its not the heathens to the west.  Their women ride horses in a very unlady like fashion.  They have even been know to wear pants.

Which 'heathens' would that be? ;)

Those which HAVE pants, my dear boy! Not the bare arsed SAVAGE variety of heathens!

Borys

[swamphen]

I prefer not to mention the depraved Brandenburgers ...

*whistles innocently away...*

The Legion Kondor does not discriminate on the basis of gender when recruiting, although this is to be expected from such savage bands of mercenary...well, mercenaries. ;)   So far the Regular Military Forces have been more...conventional in their recruiting, however there are a few up-and-coming young minds who may prove too valuable to turn away merely due to the slight inconvience of being in the wrongly-equipped body...

[Borys]

I need bleach to cleanse my eyes ....

[P3D]

[Reality check]
While some militaries might not discriminate by gender, if they apply similar physical fitness requirements to all recruits, the number of females of adequate fitness would be considerably lower. Even today. Hundred years ago muscle power was even more important in the military.
IIRC US Army studies have shown that the a specific fitness level could be achieved by 50% of the males but sg like 5-10% of females in the relevant age bracket.

For professional mercenary troops, I think the issue is even more emphasised. Being versatile and reliable is a requirement. Female enlisted falling pregnant a month after deployment is an often heard argument in this issue, and that's with modern contraceptives.
[/Reality check]

[Carthaginian]

OoC:
OK, my poster, for the record, has nothing to do with attempting to recruit females. Its just operating on the age old principle of 'Sex Sells.'

And as far as women needing to be strong to be in the military- then or now- I believe the effectiveness of the W.A.S.P.s, W.A.V.E.s, and thousands that were in the regular military in secretarial/clerical postings during WWII gives the lie to that statement. If anything, a woman in uniform preforming a rear echelon job really produces TWO soldiers... she not only does a job, but adds the more physically capable male soldier to the fighting front.


P³D...
Ever wonder why that female becomes pregnant?
It's not because the contraceptives don't work; it's more due to a defective soldier than a defective pill. Those women are looking for an out, and they take it by getting pregnant. Trust me, I've been there, done that, and covered for many of my fellows- male and female- while they were getting some on deployment. Out of 8 females in my company (two using only condoms) and 100 or so men, the only people that turned up pregnant were 5 wives back home (4 of which had actually seen their husbands in the last 10 months ;)). NONE of the female soldiers that were in my company, or in the multi-national task force I worked for over the course of a year came up pregnant, and I worked on the horniest part of BIAP (read: had the most field-grade brass and E-8/E-9 NCO's). That includes the Brits, Aussies, NZ's, and a sprinkling of other nationalities. It was a small OP (only a few hundred) and word generally got around... or video feed, if the couple was careless. ;D

[The Rock Doctor]

The Armada has no need for such...indecent...recruitment techniques...

Especially when young Gran Colombian men know that they could instead be drafted into one of a dozen jungle divisions and spend the next two years feeding mosquitos and leeches in the rain forest...

[Borys]

OOC
Is the girl on the rifle a flapper?
Borys

[Carthaginian]

OOC
Is the girl on the rifle a flapper?
Borys

OoC:
Nah... it's a WWII-era poster that I stuck some text on in MSPaint.
She's not a flapper, just a typical 40's girl. standards of dress for women went a long way in 40 years. I just decided it would make a cool poster and co-opted it, and then thought about how something so racy would have been received in the 1910's. Then I added an (for the time) even more obscene slogan and wrote a nice little article about how the Navy was trying to entice young men with the promise of sexy ladies willing to help them with 'gun maintenance.'

[Borys]

Hurr-hurr nudge-nudge wink-wink
:)

[swamphen]

*watches reality check bounce*

I need bleach to cleanse my eyes ....

What, you don't like red hair?  ;)

[P3D]

Carthaginian,

I concur with what you say. My point is that most rear-echelon job in 1914 just require much more muscle than in 2005 (or even in1944), just consider the tons of artillery shells that has to be moved even for a smaller unit. And that society need another ~70 years to accept the thought of female soldiers on the front. A lot of administrative jobs  today (in general, not just in the military) are filled with women, but it needed the conscript armies and mass mobilization of WWI to open most of these jobs.

In N-verse, there was not a single extended war to the scale that required the complete mobilization of the national economies on Great War level. The societies - especially the military - are male-oriented. Administrative jobs can be filled regardless of gender, just there was no need to force such a huge change on conservative militaries. And the general level  of female education is just on its way to catch up, especially in rural areas, that they could fill up those jobs that need education rather than muscles.

Where would be female soldiers in N-verse (besides the medical corps that is)? Small female-only queen's guard-type units company sized - ceremonial guard, filled with the more eager daughters of noble families (or however you call the 'landowner warrior class') and the odd suffragette of urban upbringing. Cavalry/mounted units most of the time. Mixed gender units should be out of the question.

[Tanthalas]

TBH on the topic of female education 1906 is the year my grandma on my father's side was born.  She was the first Female member of her Family to complete secondary education aka high school.  I tend to agree the general educational level wont be there for a generation or there about.

[Carthaginian]

First off, there are NO FEMALES in CS military line units. There are a moderate number of females in the medical units, and there are female personnel in garrison environments, generally employed in such industries as laundry, dining facilities, base housekeeping, seamstresses, etc. There is some talk (very little) about allowing for the training of female transcribers in communications concerns; also the new, longer-ranged guns have raised questions about providing manpower for calculating range tables for distance firing. Both of these positions would be better staffed by females, enabling men to serve in line units.

The chivalrous (some say chauvinistic) attitude of Confederate society will- unless drastic changes occur- prevent any acceptance of females in units that might see combat conditions. Women are delicate creatures, and it is a man's job to defend them; women are loving caregivers and it's their job to support the men. That's just "THE WAY THINGS ARE MEANT TO BE_(R)" and is not likely to be changed in the mind of most Southrons... even the ladies.

Carthaginian,

I concur with what you say. My point is that most rear-echelon job in 1914 just require much more muscle than in 2005 (or even in1944), just consider the tons of artillery shells that has to be moved even for a smaller unit. And that society need another ~70 years to accept the thought of female soldiers on the front. A lot of administrative jobs today (in general, not just in the military) are filled with women, but it needed the conscript armies and mass mobilization of WWI to open most of these jobs.

Mass conscript armies did indeed open the need for women in OTL, but that was in a more stable, less mobilized world than N-verse. In our little world, there are more tensions, greater sectarian differences (CSA-UNK, UNK-Rohan, Rohan-France, CSA-DBK), several openly hostile parties constantly at odds with each other (Swiss-Chinese, Swiss-DKB, DKB-HK, etc. The N-verse world is just plain more militarized than the real world, and thus there are more jobs to be filled. I could easily see female troops being used more than OTL at any given time- especially in newer nations like Bavaria and Italy which are just looking to build up numbers.

In N-verse, there was not a single extended war to the scale that required the complete mobilization of the national economies on Great War level. The societies - especially the military - are male-oriented. Administrative jobs can be filled regardless of gender, just there was no need to force such a huge change on conservative militaries. And the general level  of female education is just on its way to catch up, especially in rural areas, that they could fill up those jobs that need education rather than muscles.

I agree here fully. I also believe that a nation trying to raise the general level of education for women would be wise to induce an artificial raising of their educational levels by looking to themas a military resource. A woman doesn't have to have a college education (or high school education for that matter) to serve as a nurse in 1908... the material just isn't as complex as it is now. Women could be used in medical and clerical/secretarial postings as a way of educating them. Their educations would be 'free,' would net the military more males for 'strong back' jobs and the country more  skilled workers. The money to teach those women to transcribe Morse Code or learn to dress wounds is there (and an be taxed to gain part of the money spent back).

Where would be female soldiers in N-verse (besides the medical corps that is)? Small female-only queen's guard-type units company sized - ceremonial guard, filled with the more eager daughters of noble families (or however you call the 'landowner warrior class') and the odd suffragette of urban upbringing. Cavalry/mounted units most of the time. Mixed gender units should be out of the question.

I fully agree here. Mixed units are a late 20th century invention, and IMHO a really bad idea overall; though there are a few times that they are necessary, such as with MP's*. Coed units just make life difficult during long deployments. It's a good idea to have male and female units working in close proximity (in order to preserve some degree of normalcy in socialization), but those interactions need to be rather strictly controlled, and having the units completely integrated generally presents too many problems in that respect.

*In MP units, it's vital to have females. Other females just aren't as comfortable dealing with males for some of the tasks that have to be undertaken/supervised by MP's, even in the field. The females provide the necessary measure to ease interaction tension and preform delicate tasks.

[P3D]

Mass conscript armies did indeed open the need for women in OTL, but that was in a more stable, less mobilized world than N-verse. In our little world, there are more tensions, greater sectarian differences (CSA-UNK, UNK-Rohan, Rohan-France, CSA-DBK), several openly hostile parties constantly at odds with each other (Swiss-Chinese, Swiss-DKB, DKB-HK, etc. The N-verse world is just plain more militarized than the real world, and thus there are more jobs to be filled. I could easily see female troops being used more than OTL at any given time- especially in newer nations like Bavaria and Italy which are just looking to build up numbers

Even considering political tensions, no country had mobilized its population in N-verse to the required extent that manpower shortage would necessitate the paradigm shift. In the Swiss-Chinese war, the mobilization level even on the Swiss side was at most one or two percent, far from the above 10% that some European countries (esp. Serbia and France) faced in WWI.

A standing military of 1-2 percent of total population can be achieved by 3-year-long conscript service plus professional cadre with minimal effect on the national economy. I'd consider that adequate for political standoff, and no one is above this level in N-verse AFAIK.

[Carthaginian]

A standing military of 1-2 percent of total population can be achieved by 3-year-long conscript service plus professional cadre with minimal effect on the national economy. I'd consider that adequate for political standoff, and no one is above this level in N-verse AFAIK.

I didn't mean that we have a greater percentage of our populations mobilized than OTL; I said more militarized, not more mobilized. Our nations are more military-conscious than most OTL nations.
For example, the US didn't even have conscription at this time- it had no external threats.
OTOH, in N-verse North America, there are at least 4 possible combinations of warring parties with ready-made issues (CSA-UNK, UNK-Rohan, France-Rohan, CSA-DRM). This would make the population more intent on military service, and would drive more military leaders to look towards alternative methods of finding troops to serve in non-conscription environments. Remember, conscripts are suck-arse soldiers... and generals know that. Volunteers are more motivated and do a better job- especially in the kinds of jobs that we would put women doing.

I know that you're not a fan of ahistorical happenings, and I know that we try to make things semi-historical here, but I see nothing wrong with flights of fancy that involve the limited use of females in the military in period-appropriate jobs.
If you want an army of 1,000,000 men and you employ 5,000 women as 'laundry specialists' in that military, it's 5,000 less men removed form the national workforce, and 5,000 more taxable citizens than normal. That makes sense on a national level. You're raising more tax money, gaining more men in the workforce, and using women in jobs they should be used to doing... they are just now doing it in uniform.

In the more militaristic N-verse world, this seems plausible to me, and apparently to others.