Ersatz F, Ersatz F!

[swamphen]

Due to the requirements for steel elsewhere due to the War of the Pacific, work on the schlachtschiff "Ersatz F" was suspended late in H2/07, with 2200 tons of the 21,500 required complete. This consists of 1061.5 tons to the keel, and 1138.5 tons for two of the four required 11,500shp turbines.

With the ship suspended in such an early stage of construction, it was decided by the Admiralstab to reconsider the design, based on the changing geopolitical situation. They came to the conclusion that, as originally designed and laid down, the Kreigsmarine does not need the ship. While some navies are building battleships that match it, or nearly so, in speed, when it comes to the DKB battleline the ship is too fast. 23 knots of speed is not very useful when the battleline speed is only projected to be 18 knots for the next ten years, and only 21 even after that. There is also the fact that comparable ships have either already moved, or are rapidly moving to, the 13.5"-14" range when it comes to main armament.

So the ship is over-engined and under-gunned to be a battleship. Many, including the Brandenburgian Naval Academy, have referred to the ship as a battle-cruiser; but the Admiralstab's conclusion is that for that type of ship Ersatz F is under-engined and over-gunned...

Given the needs for war production, the first choice of the Admiralstab was simply to scrap it on the slip, re-using the turbines elsewhere, The second option was to sell off the ship, completing it only to launching and then towing it off to be a nuisance elsewhere. But there is a fly in these ointments. The name chosen for the ship is Kaiser Wilhelm II. One does not simply dispose of a ship bearing the name of the current emperor.

So a directive was given to the design staff. What can be done to Ersatz "F" without needing to modify the work already done? The selected option drops the speed by nearly two full knots, with the already-delivered 11,500shp turbines being fitted to the outer shafts, and smaller 5,000shp crusing units fitted to the inner shafts; the amount of oil in the bunkerage was also increased. The reduction in boilerroom and engineroom space given by this allows the wing turrets to be moved and consolidated amidships into a single "Q" turret (to use the Norman notation), retaining the eight-gun broadside with two fewer guns total. And the size of these guns is upped, the original design's 305mm weapons being replaced by the 350mm Model 1905 weapon. Space for additional equipment is also added in the superstructure.

***

As I noted, given the fact that the ship is still in a very early stage of construction, and that there are no changes to its dimensions of any sort and the normal displacement remains the same, I am assuming that when work resumes on the ship in late 1908 it can be to the new design, with the difference in $ being paid at that time.

The design given in quotes is the original. Following that, the revised one.

DKB Schlachtschiffen laid down 1906 (Engine 1909)

Displacement:
   21,500 t light; 22,916 t standard; 25,027 t normal; 26,716 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   561.02 ft / 557.74 ft x 95.14 ft x 28.71 ft (normal load)
   171.00 m / 170.00 m x 29.00 m  x 8.75 m

Armament:
      6 - 12.01" / 305 mm guns (3x2 guns), 859.80lbs / 390.00kg shells, 1903 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, majority aft, 1 raised mount aft - superfiring
      4 - 12.01" / 305 mm guns (2x2 guns), 859.80lbs / 390.00kg shells, 1903 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on side, all amidships
     14 - 5.91" / 150 mm guns in single mounts, 99.21lbs / 45.00kg shells, 1901 Model
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts
     on side, evenly spread
     14 guns in hull casemates - Limited use in heavy seas
     16 - 3.46" / 88.0 mm guns in single mounts, 22.05lbs / 10.00kg shells, 1900 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
     8 guns in hull casemates - Limited use in heavy seas
     12 - 1.46" / 37.0 mm guns in single mounts, 1.10lbs / 0.50kg shells, 1905 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts

   Weight of broadside 10,353 lbs / 4,696 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 150

   5 - 17.7" / 450 mm submerged torpedo tubes

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:      13.8" / 350 mm   328.08 ft / 100.00 m   14.76 ft / 4.50 m
   Ends:      4.72" / 120 mm   229.66 ft / 70.00 m   14.76 ft / 4.50 m
   Upper:      5.91" / 150 mm   328.08 ft / 100.00 m   9.84 ft / 3.00 m
     Main Belt covers 90 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:      13.8" / 350 mm   7.87" / 200 mm      11.8" / 300 mm
   2nd:      13.8" / 350 mm   7.87" / 200 mm      11.8" / 300 mm
   3rd:      5.91" / 150 mm         -               -
   4th:      1.57" / 40 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 2.17" / 55 mm, Conning tower: 11.81" / 300 mm

Machinery:
   Coal and oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 4 shafts, 46,000 shp / 34,316 Kw = 23.12 kts
   Range 10,000nm at 10.00 kts (Bunkerage = 3,800 tons) (90% coal)

Complement:
   994 - 1,293

Cost:
   £2.169 million / $8.674 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1,306 tons, 5.2 %
   Armour: 8,786 tons, 35.1 %
      - Belts: 4,476 tons, 17.9 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 2,574 tons, 10.3 %
      - Armour Deck: 1,519 tons, 6.1 %
      - Conning Tower: 218 tons, 0.9 %
   Machinery: 2,277 tons, 9.1 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 8,930 tons, 35.7 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 3,527 tons, 14.1 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 200 tons, 0.8 %
      - 50 tons, Sehendes Auge
      - 20 tons, Markoni installation
      - 20 tons, Flag accomodations
      - 25 tons, torpedoes, 5 per tube
      - 20 tons, VIP accomodations
      - 65 tons, weight reserve

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     32,334 lbs / 14,667 Kg = 37.4 x 12.0 " / 305 mm shells or 3.6 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.09
   Metacentric height 5.5 ft / 1.7 m
   Roll period: 17.0 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 71 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.51
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.25

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak
   Block coefficient: 0.575
   Length to Beam Ratio: 5.86 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 23.62 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 51 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 57
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -5.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 3.28 ft / 1.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:         22.97 ft / 7.00 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):      21.33 ft / 6.50 m
      - Mid (70 %):      20.51 ft / 6.25 m (13.12 ft / 4.00 m aft of break)
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   13.12 ft / 4.00 m
      - Stern:         13.12 ft / 4.00 m
      - Average freeboard:      18.79 ft / 5.73 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 73.9 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 138.9 %
   Waterplane Area: 37,913 Square feet or 3,522 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 104 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 172 lbs/sq ft or 838 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.94
      - Longitudinal: 1.72
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

Ersatz F, Brandenburgian Schlachtschiff laid down 1906 (Engine 1909)

Displacement:
   21,637 t light; 23,121 t standard; 25,027 t normal; 26,552 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   561.02 ft / 557.74 ft x 95.14 ft x 28.71 ft (normal load)
   171.00 m / 170.00 m x 29.00 m  x 8.75 m

Armament:
      6 - 13.78" / 350 mm guns (3x2 guns), 1,322.77lbs / 600.00kg shells, 1905 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, majority aft, 1 raised mount aft - superfiring
      2 - 13.78" / 350 mm guns (1x2 guns), 1,322.77lbs / 600.00kg shells, 1905 Model
     Breech loading guns in a turret (on a barbette)
     on centreline amidships
      12 - 5.91" / 150 mm guns in single mounts, 99.21lbs / 45.00kg shells, 1909 Model
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts
     on side, evenly spread
      16 - 3.46" / 88.0 mm guns in single mounts, 22.05lbs / 10.00kg shells, 1900 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
     8 guns in hull casemates - Limited use in heavy seas
      12 - 1.46" / 37.0 mm guns in single mounts, 1.55lbs / 0.70kg shells, 1905 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 12,144 lbs / 5,508 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 140
   5 - 19.7" / 500 mm submerged torpedo tubes

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   13.8" / 350 mm   328.08 ft / 100.00 m   14.76 ft / 4.50 m
   Ends:   4.72" / 120 mm   229.66 ft / 70.00 m   14.76 ft / 4.50 m
   Upper:   5.91" / 150 mm   328.08 ft / 100.00 m   9.84 ft / 3.00 m
     Main Belt covers 90 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   13.8" / 350 mm   7.87" / 200 mm      11.8" / 300 mm
   2nd:   13.8" / 350 mm   7.87" / 200 mm      11.8" / 300 mm
   3rd:   5.91" / 150 mm         -               -
   4th:   1.57" / 40 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 2.17" / 55 mm, Conning tower: 11.81" / 300 mm

Machinery:
   Coal and oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 4 shafts, 33,000 shp / 24,618 Kw = 21.22 kts
   Range 10,000nm at 10.00 kts (Bunkerage = 3,430 tons) (60% coal)

Complement:
   994 - 1,293

Cost:
   £2.245 million / $8.980 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1,507 tons, 6.0 %
   Armour: 8,610 tons, 34.4 %
      - Belts: 4,476 tons, 17.9 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 2,398 tons, 9.6 %
      - Armour Deck: 1,519 tons, 6.1 %
      - Conning Tower: 218 tons, 0.9 %
   Machinery: 1,587 tons, 6.3 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 9,569 tons, 38.2 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 3,390 tons, 13.5 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 365 tons, 1.5 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     33,699 lbs / 15,285 Kg = 25.8 x 13.8 " / 350 mm shells or 3.7 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.12
   Metacentric height 5.7 ft / 1.7 m
   Roll period: 16.7 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.60
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.47

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak
   Block coefficient: 0.575
   Length to Beam Ratio: 5.86 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 23.62 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 46 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 48
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -5.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 3.28 ft / 1.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      22.97 ft / 7.00 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   21.33 ft / 6.50 m
      - Mid (70 %):      20.51 ft / 6.25 m (13.12 ft / 4.00 m aft of break)
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   13.12 ft / 4.00 m
      - Stern:      13.12 ft / 4.00 m
      - Average freeboard:   18.79 ft / 5.73 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 71.7 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 138.9 %
   Waterplane Area: 37,913 Square feet or 3,522 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 103 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 184 lbs/sq ft or 897 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.94
      - Longitudinal: 1.82
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

[P3D]

The speed of the ship is not compatible with anything in your fleet. The 23kts could at least operate with your battlecruisers. And 23kts is faster than most older ACs.
It would stick out more from the Kaiserliche Marine than the old design.

[swamphen]

True, but it will fit in better with this...
;)

SMS Kronprinz Eitel Friedrich, Brandenburgian Schlachtschiff laid down 1914 (Engine 1912)

Displacement:
   24,641 t light; 26,519 t standard; 28,003 t normal; 29,190 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   590.55 ft / 590.55 ft x 98.43 ft x 31.17 ft (normal load)
   180.00 m / 180.00 m x 30.00 m  x 9.50 m

Armament:
      6 - 16.54" / 420 mm guns (3x2 guns), 2,259.74lbs / 1,025.00kg shells, 1913 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline, evenly spread, 1 raised mount
     Aft Main mounts separated by engine room
      16 - 5.91" / 150 mm guns in single mounts, 99.21lbs / 45.00kg shells, 1909 Model
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts
     on side, evenly spread, 4 raised mounts
     10 guns in hull casemates - Limited use in heavy seas
      14 - 3.46" / 88.0 mm guns in single mounts, 22.05lbs / 10.00kg shells, 1900 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, 8 raised mounts
     6 guns in hull casemates - Limited use in heavy seas
      2 - 1.97" / 50.0 mm guns in single mounts, 3.86lbs / 1.75kg shells, 1910 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on side, all aft, all raised mounts - superfiring
      6 - 0.30" / 7.7 mm guns in single mounts, 0.01lbs / 0.01kg shells, 1914 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 15,462 lbs / 7,014 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 150
   6 - 19.7" / 500 mm submerged torpedo tubes

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   15.0" / 380 mm   367.45 ft / 112.00 m   14.76 ft / 4.50 m
   Ends:   1.97" / 50 mm   223.10 ft / 68.00 m   14.76 ft / 4.50 m
   Upper:   4.72" / 120 mm   262.47 ft / 80.00 m   6.56 ft / 2.00 m
     Main Belt covers 96 % of normal length

   - Torpedo Bulkhead:
      1.97" / 50 mm   459.32 ft / 140.00 m   31.17 ft / 9.50 m

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   15.0" / 380 mm   11.0" / 280 mm      11.0" / 280 mm
   2nd:   4.72" / 120 mm         -         4.72" / 120 mm
   3rd:   1.97" / 50 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 3.15" / 80 mm, Conning tower: 11.81" / 300 mm

Machinery:
   Coal and oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 3 shafts, 36,000 shp / 26,856 Kw = 21.50 kts
   Range 6,250nm at 12.00 kts (Bunkerage = 2,670 tons)

Complement:
   1,082 - 1,407

Cost:
   £3.431 million / $13.723 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1,939 tons, 6.9 %
   Armour: 10,316 tons, 36.8 %
      - Belts: 4,234 tons, 15.1 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 1,043 tons, 3.7 %
      - Armament: 2,461 tons, 8.8 %
      - Armour Deck: 2,344 tons, 8.4 %
      - Conning Tower: 235 tons, 0.8 %
   Machinery: 1,462 tons, 5.2 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 10,573 tons, 37.8 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 3,362 tons, 12.0 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 350 tons, 1.2 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     25,779 lbs / 11,693 Kg = 11.4 x 16.5 " / 420 mm shells or 4.1 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.09
   Metacentric height 5.7 ft / 1.7 m
   Roll period: 17.3 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 68 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.58
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.25

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak
   Block coefficient: 0.541
   Length to Beam Ratio: 6.00 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 24.30 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 44 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 54
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      18.86 ft / 5.75 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   18.04 ft / 5.50 m
      - Mid (75 %):      16.40 ft / 5.00 m (11.48 ft / 3.50 m aft of break)
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   11.48 ft / 3.50 m
      - Stern:      11.48 ft / 3.50 m
      - Average freeboard:   16.02 ft / 4.88 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 94.5 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 115.7 %
   Waterplane Area: 40,225 Square feet or 3,737 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 96 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 194 lbs/sq ft or 949 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.96
      - Longitudinal: 1.54
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

...and the 350mm armament is now considered essential. I could try 6x350 and speed as-is, I suppose, but this is the preferred option.

(I actually hosted a HSF planning meeting in my head last night. Unfortunatly the details escape my keyboard finger but this was the decision...although KWII himself would have preferred 6x350 and 4 or 8x240 in the same arrangement as Scharnhorst.  ;) )

Besides, I pity da foo' who sends an armoured cruiser up against this puppy with any combination of armament and speed.  :D

[P3D]

I'd think making 15" cemented armor plate is not too trivial. You will have to build new factories just to make that. And 6 guns might not be considered adequate. Barbette is paperthin compared to the belt - and I saw many barbette hits in the battles I simmed.

I pity the DKB merchant that was hunted down by the 15-year-old 23kt AC that got away from your brand new 21kt battleship.

[swamphen]

Well I'll see if I can fit 6x350 on Ersatz F and still keep the speed up. (Just remember, if that ship was to be named anything but Kaiser Wilhelm II, it would be broken up on the slip without question...)

On the other ship - perhaps it has a 350mm belt and a 30mm decapping plate?  ;) Or I could try reducing its armour to 350mm and increasing the barbettes - although down that road lies madness...

Oh yes - forgot to mention - that 1914 design (...by which time there will be at least one new factory...) is heavily based on one by vonderTann on the battlecruiser board, so kudos and thanks to him. :)

[P3D]

Removing two you will have to redesign the ship completely, and include some additional ballast - the ships was designed with that 1000t weight amidships. And I don't like the weight rearrangement of the turrets. I'd say scrap what is on the slipways - and you would be allowed to reuse 1.5BP of the invested 2.2, not the usual 15% (turbines and part of the Shiffbaustahl). And start with a new design.

[swamphen]

We'll slide a new ship under the nameplate then.  ;D

[swamphen]

Ersatz F, Brandenburgian Schlachtkreuzer laid down 1908 (Engine 1909)

Displacement:
   19,999 t light; 21,299 t standard; 24,123 t normal; 26,383 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   692.26 ft / 688.98 ft x 78.74 ft x 27.07 ft (normal load)
   211.00 m / 210.00 m x 24.00 m  x 8.25 m

Armament:
      6 - 13.78" / 350 mm guns (3x2 guns), 1,322.77lbs / 600.00kg shells, 1905 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, majority aft, 1 raised mount aft - superfiring
     12 - 5.91" / 150 mm guns in single mounts, 99.21lbs / 45.00kg shells, 1908 Model
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts
     on side, evenly spread
     16 - 3.46" / 88.0 mm guns in single mounts, 22.05lbs / 10.00kg shells, 1908 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
     8 guns in hull casemates - Limited use in heavy seas
     12 - 1.46" / 37.0 mm guns in single mounts, 1.55lbs / 0.70kg shells, 1908 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts

   Weight of broadside 9,498 lbs / 4,308 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 150

   5 - 19.7" / 500 mm submerged torpedo tubes

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:      12.6" / 320 mm   328.08 ft / 100.00 m   14.76 ft / 4.50 m
   Ends:      4.72" / 120 mm   360.89 ft / 110.00 m   13.94 ft / 4.25 m
   Upper:      4.72" / 120 mm   328.08 ft / 100.00 m   9.02 ft / 2.75 m
     Main Belt covers 73 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:      12.6" / 320 mm   7.87" / 200 mm      11.8" / 300 mm
   3rd:      4.72" / 120 mm         -               -
   4th:      1.57" / 40 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 1.97" / 50 mm, Conning tower: 11.81" / 300 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 4 shafts, 48,000 shp / 35,808 Kw = 24.14 kts
   Range 12,150nm at 12.00 kts (Bunkerage = 5,084 tons)

Complement:
   967 - 1,258

Cost:
   £1.996 million / $7.985 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1,180 tons, 4.9 %
   Armour: 7,576 tons, 31.4 %
      - Belts: 4,241 tons, 17.6 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 1,711 tons, 7.1 %
      - Armour Deck: 1,412 tons, 5.9 %
      - Conning Tower: 212 tons, 0.9 %
   Machinery: 2,182 tons, 9.0 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 8,697 tons, 36.1 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 4,125 tons, 17.1 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 365 tons, 1.5 %
      - 20 tons, Markoni installation
      - 20 tons, Flag accomodations
      - 25 tons, torpedoes, 5 per tube
      - 50 tons, Sehendes Auge
      - 250 tons, Deutenden Stock

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     31,809 lbs / 14,428 Kg = 24.3 x 13.8 " / 350 mm shells or 3.2 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.12
   Metacentric height 4.3 ft / 1.3 m
   Roll period: 15.9 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 57 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.71
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.17

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak
   Block coefficient: 0.575
   Length to Beam Ratio: 8.75 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 26.25 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 42 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 49
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -5.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 3.28 ft / 1.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:         22.97 ft / 7.00 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):      19.69 ft / 6.00 m
      - Mid (70 %):      18.86 ft / 5.75 m (11.98 ft / 3.65 m aft of break)
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   11.98 ft / 3.65 m
      - Stern:         11.98 ft / 3.65 m
      - Average freeboard:      17.43 ft / 5.31 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 72.1 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 134.3 %
   Waterplane Area: 38,759 Square feet or 3,601 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 111 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 155 lbs/sq ft or 757 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 1.00
      - Longitudinal: 1.00
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent

[P3D]

This ship could only be docked in one single drydock. I Don't consider it a good idea. If you won't insist on 24kts speed it can be quite a few thousand tons smaller.
And there are not too many lvl3 drydock in he Indian/Pacific oceans either.

[swamphen]

The DKB can build only battleships or battlecruisers...and has decided upon the latter. So <24 knot = no can do, die Linienschiff ist kaput. (Note that "slightly used, one careful owner, only sailed to the fishing grounds and back on Sundays", and "new foreign model" ships are, of course, always possible).

However, while the "conventional" schlachtschiffen are to be built no more, kustenpanzerschiffen are something that (a) are needed and (b) are cheaper. A "Sverge" type ship would be just what the herr Doktor ordered. Or, perhaps, something like this.

SMS Ersatz F-cubed, German Coastal Battleship laid down 1908 (Engine 1909)

Displacement:
   11,848 t light; 12,661 t standard; 13,730 t normal; 14,586 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   462.60 ft / 459.32 ft x 88.58 ft x 19.69 ft (normal load)
   141.00 m / 140.00 m x 27.00 m  x 6.00 m

Armament:
      4 - 13.78" / 350 mm guns (2x2 guns), 1,322.77lbs / 600.00kg shells, 1905 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, evenly spread
      8 - 5.91" / 150 mm guns in single mounts, 99.21lbs / 45.00kg shells, 1909 Model
     Quick firing guns in casemate mounts
     on side, all amidships
      8 - 3.46" / 88.0 mm guns in single mounts, 22.05lbs / 10.00kg shells, 1900 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, all amidships, all raised mounts
      1 - 1.97" / 50.0 mm guns in single mounts, 3.86lbs / 1.75kg shells, 1903 Model
     Quick firing gun in deck mount
     on centreline aft, 1 raised gun
      4 - 0.30" / 7.7 mm guns in single mounts, 0.01lbs / 0.01kg shells, 1908 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts

   Weight of broadside 6,265 lbs / 2,842 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 150

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:      11.8" / 300 mm   262.47 ft / 80.00 m   11.48 ft / 3.50 m
   Ends:      4.72" / 120 mm   196.85 ft / 60.00 m   11.48 ft / 3.50 m
   Upper:      4.72" / 120 mm   262.47 ft / 80.00 m   8.20 ft / 2.50 m
     Main Belt covers 88 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:      11.8" / 300 mm   7.87" / 200 mm      11.8" / 300 mm
   2nd:      4.72" / 120 mm         -         1.97" / 50 mm
   3rd:      1.97" / 50 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 1.97" / 50 mm, Conning tower: 7.87" / 200 mm

Machinery:
   Coal and oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 3 shafts, 15,750 shp / 11,750 Kw = 18.75 kts
   Range 5,200nm at 12.00 kts (Bunkerage = 1,925 tons)

Complement:
   633 - 824

Cost:
   £1.175 million / $4.698 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 778 tons, 5.7 %
   Armour: 4,760 tons, 34.7 %
      - Belts: 2,524 tons, 18.4 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 1,055 tons, 7.7 %
      - Armour Deck: 1,084 tons, 7.9 %
      - Conning Tower: 97 tons, 0.7 %
   Machinery: 757 tons, 5.5 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 5,243 tons, 38.2 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,882 tons, 13.7 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 310 tons, 2.3 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     21,835 lbs / 9,904 Kg = 16.7 x 13.8 " / 350 mm shells or 3.5 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.26
   Metacentric height 6.4 ft / 1.9 m
   Roll period: 14.7 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 72 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.28
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.23

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.600
   Length to Beam Ratio: 5.19 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 21.43 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 45 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 58
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -5.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 3.28 ft / 1.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:         17.22 ft / 5.25 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):      14.76 ft / 4.50 m
      - Mid (60 %):      13.12 ft / 4.00 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   13.12 ft / 4.00 m
      - Stern:         13.12 ft / 4.00 m
      - Average freeboard:      13.98 ft / 4.26 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 64.9 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 122.0 %
   Waterplane Area: 29,758 Square feet or 2,765 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 107 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 143 lbs/sq ft or 696 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.96
      - Longitudinal: 1.41
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

[maddox]

That is just a recast of an elder BB.

for coast defence, go for the smallest hull with the 2 350mm turrets and only a few small cecundaries, diminish speed as far as possible, and use the left over weight to build DD's or even TB's

[The Rock Doctor]

Agreed.  They're bigger guns, but still pre-dreadnoughts.  Let the remaining DKB pre-dreads (and, if need be, the new French quasi-pre-dreads) do that job; focus future construction on top-of-the-line stuff.

[swamphen]

SMS Ersatz F4, German Kustenpanzerschiff laid down 1908 (Engine 1909)

Displacement:
   9,803 t light; 10,496 t standard; 11,144 t normal; 11,662 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   396.98 ft / 393.70 ft x 85.30 ft x 19.69 ft (normal load)
   121.00 m / 120.00 m x 26.00 m  x 6.00 m

Armament:
      4 - 13.78" / 350 mm guns (2x2 guns), 1,322.77lbs / 600.00kg shells, 1905 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, evenly spread
      8 - 4.13" / 105 mm guns in single mounts, 35.27lbs / 16.00kg shells, 1905 Model
     Quick firing guns in casemate mounts
     on side, evenly spread
      1 - 1.97" / 50.0 mm guns in single mounts, 3.86lbs / 1.75kg shells, 1903 Model
     Quick firing gun in deck mount
     on centreline aft, 1 raised gun
      4 - 0.30" / 7.7 mm guns in single mounts, 0.01lbs / 0.00kg shells, 1908 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts

   Weight of broadside 5,577 lbs / 2,530 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 150

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:      11.8" / 300 mm   229.66 ft / 70.00 m   11.48 ft / 3.50 m
   Ends:      4.72" / 120 mm   164.04 ft / 50.00 m   11.48 ft / 3.50 m
     Main Belt covers 90 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:      11.8" / 300 mm   7.87" / 200 mm      11.8" / 300 mm
   3rd:      1.97" / 50 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 1.97" / 50 mm, Conning tower: 7.87" / 200 mm

Machinery:
   Coal and oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 14,000 shp / 10,444 Kw = 18.55 kts
   Range 5,000nm at 10.00 kts (Bunkerage = 1,166 tons)

Complement:
   542 - 705

Cost:
   £1.019 million / $4.075 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 690 tons, 6.2 %
   Armour: 3,693 tons, 33.1 %
      - Belts: 1,792 tons, 16.1 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 930 tons, 8.3 %
      - Armour Deck: 886 tons, 8.0 %
      - Conning Tower: 85 tons, 0.8 %
   Machinery: 686 tons, 6.2 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 4,474 tons, 40.1 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,341 tons, 12.0 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 260 tons, 2.3 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     15,636 lbs / 7,093 Kg = 12.0 x 13.8 " / 350 mm shells or 2.8 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.16
   Metacentric height 5.2 ft / 1.6 m
   Roll period: 15.8 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 72 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.34
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.12

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.590
   Length to Beam Ratio: 4.62 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 19.84 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 50 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 64
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -5.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 3.28 ft / 1.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:         17.22 ft / 5.25 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):      14.76 ft / 4.50 m
      - Mid (60 %):      13.12 ft / 4.00 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   13.12 ft / 4.00 m
      - Stern:         13.12 ft / 4.00 m
      - Average freeboard:      13.98 ft / 4.26 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 70.9 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 116.5 %
   Waterplane Area: 24,334 Square feet or 2,261 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 103 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 147 lbs/sq ft or 716 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.94
      - Longitudinal: 1.94
      - Overall: 1.01
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

[swamphen]

Agreed.  They're bigger guns, but still pre-dreadnoughts.  Let the remaining DKB pre-dreads (and, if need be, the new French quasi-pre-dreads) do that job; focus future construction on top-of-the-line stuff.

Which would be KKs by the score, at this point.  ;)

At least one KPzS needs to be built...as the name Kaiser Wilhelm II has to be used.

[maddox]

Clausewitz, DKB CCBB laid down 1908 (Engine 1909)

Displacement:
   9.001 t light; 9.666 t standard; 10.328 t normal; 10.857 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   367,45 ft / 360,89 ft x 85,30 ft x 19,69 ft (normal load)
   112,00 m / 110,00 m x 26,00 m  x 6,00 m

Armament:
      4 - 13,78" / 350 mm guns (2x2 guns), 1.308,20lbs / 593,39kg shells, 1908 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, evenly spread
      6 - 3,46" / 88,0 mm guns in single mounts, 20,79lbs / 9,43kg shells, 1908 Model
     Quick firing guns in casemate mounts
     on side, all amidships
     6 guns in hull casemates - Limited use in any sea
      4 - 3,46" / 88,0 mm guns in single mounts, 20,79lbs / 9,43kg shells, 1908 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 5.441 lbs / 2.468 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 150

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   11,8" / 300 mm   262,47 ft / 80,00 m   9,84 ft / 3,00 m
   Ends:   7,09" / 180 mm     65,62 ft / 20,00 m   9,84 ft / 3,00 m
     32,81 ft / 10,00 m Unarmoured ends
   Upper:   7,09" / 180 mm   262,47 ft / 80,00 m   6,56 ft / 2,00 m
     Main Belt covers 112% of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   11,8" / 300 mm   9,84" / 250 mm      11,8" / 300 mm
   2nd:   7,09" / 180 mm   0,79" / 20 mm            -

   - Armour deck: 2,52" / 64 mm, Conning tower: 11,81" / 300 mm

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 6.128 shp / 4.572 Kw = 15,00 kts
   Range 5.000nm at 10,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1.191 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   511 - 665

Cost:
   £0,929 million / $3,717 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 680 tons, 6,6%
   Armour: 4.127 tons, 40,0%
      - Belts: 2.059 tons, 19,9%
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0,0%
      - Armament: 901 tons, 8,7%
      - Armour Deck: 1.046 tons, 10,1%
      - Conning Tower: 121 tons, 1,2%
   Machinery: 306 tons, 3,0%
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 3.807 tons, 36,9%
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1.327 tons, 12,8%
   Miscellaneous weights: 80 tons, 0,8%

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     14.289 lbs / 6.481 Kg = 10,9 x 13,8 " / 350 mm shells or 3,2 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,13
   Metacentric height 5,0 ft / 1,5 m
   Roll period: 16,0 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 86 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,28
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1,29

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has raised forecastle
   Block coefficient: 0,597
   Length to Beam Ratio: 4,23 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 19,00 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 43 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 67
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -5,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 6,56 ft / 2,00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      22,97 ft / 7,00 m
      - Forecastle (20%):   16,40 ft / 5,00 m (9,84 ft / 3,00 m aft of break)
      - Mid (50%):      9,84 ft / 3,00 m
      - Quarterdeck (15%):   9,84 ft / 3,00 m
      - Stern:      9,84 ft / 3,00 m
      - Average freeboard:   11,68 ft / 3,56 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 62,0%
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 82,3%
   Waterplane Area: 22.442 Square feet or 2.085 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 101%
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 139 lbs/sq ft or 679 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,93
      - Longitudinal: 1,93
      - Overall: 1,00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is cramped
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily