Orange Capital Ships - Old Thread

[P3D]

Due to the political uncertainties a fourth 23kts 13.5" battleship will be ordered as planned instead of the BC above.

[Jefgte]

"...Orange will not enter the BC fan club..."

First idea is the best.

23kts - 4xBBs is better choice than "thin clad big guns ships" (BC)
---------
Suggest:
If you reduce the speed to the standard 21kts, you could add more 13"5 guns or more armour for identical displacement...


Jef

[P3D]

"...Orange will not enter the BC fan club..."

First idea is the best.

23kts - 4xBBs is better choice than "thin clad big guns ships" (BC)
---------
Suggest:
If you reduce the speed to the standard 21kts, you could add more 13"5 guns or more armour for identical displacement...


Jef

The 23kts was inspired by the four planned DKB ships of 23+kts in 1906.
When Orange already has three BBs of 23kts and one laid down, building slower ships is not a good idea. But yes, it costs 2000t or so vs. a 21kts battleline speed.

[Guinness]

I wonder how much of an advantage 2 knots would really be. The OTL US Navy did a bunch of war games in the 20s that revealed that a thin edge in speed like that wasn't much use, as a reluctant enemy, unless backed up to a coast, could always turn away and decline action.

I'd think that to really be worth it, against an anticipated 21 knot adversary, you'd need to be capable of more like 25 knots, maybe more depending on how well your ships are protected vs. the other guys main armament.

On about 30,000 tons, 25 vs 21 knots means one less 2x15" turret with everything else being equal.

So then the question is: is the 4 knot speed advantage worth 2 main guns (or a heck of a lot more armor). I'm not sure yet.

[P3D]

I wonder how much of an advantage 2 knots would really be. The OTL US Navy did a bunch of war games in the 20s that revealed that a thin edge in speed like that wasn't much use, as a reluctant enemy, unless backed up to a coast, could always turn away and decline action.

I'd think that to really be worth it, against an anticipated 21 knot adversary, you'd need to be capable of more like 25 knots, maybe more depending on how well your ships are protected vs. the other guys main armament.

On about 30,000 tons, 25 vs 21 knots means one less 2x15" turret with everything else being equal.

So then the question is: is the 4 knot speed advantage worth 2 main guns (or a heck of a lot more armor). I'm not sure yet.

The anticipated adversary was not a 21kt one, but a 23.5kt battleline.

[P3D]

A possible Orange answer to the different battlecruiser designs - a 27kts fast battleship with 6x15" and with battleline level of protection. Guns are 15"/40 with 2000lbs shells in twin turrets. 2" TDS reaches up to the armored deck 7' above normal waterline - to catch splinters etc. Main belt still the vertical type.
Perceived mission is heavy battleline scout.
I could wait until 1916 and have better engines, but I have to build something in 1915, and that means like two more years to finish even larger fast battleships.
Should I wait that one year and build something interim, or the lack of battlecruisers for another two years is too much of a risk - even if Orange is not planning to get into any war?

Kaap, Orange Battleship laid down 1915 (engine 1912)

Displacement:
   25,750 t light; 27,112 t standard; 29,414 t normal; 31,256 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   721.62 ft / 719.00 ft x 92.00 ft x 32.00 ft (normal load)
   219.95 m / 219.15 m x 28.04 m  x 9.75 m

Armament:
      6 - 15.00" / 381 mm guns (3x2 guns), 2,000.00lbs / 907.18kg shells, 1912 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, majority aft
      14 - 6.00" / 152 mm guns in single mounts, 108.00lbs / 48.99kg shells, 1912 Model
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts
     on centreline, all forward
     6 guns in hull casemates - Limited use in heavy seas
      8 - 3.00" / 76.2 mm guns in single mounts, 13.50lbs / 6.12kg shells, 1912 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, evenly spread
      8 - 1.00" / 25.4 mm guns in single mounts, 0.50lbs / 0.23kg shells, 1912 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
      8 - 0.36" / 9.2 mm guns in single mounts, 0.02lbs / 0.01kg shells, 1912 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 13,624 lbs / 6,180 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 100
   2 - 21.0" / 533.4 mm submerged torpedo tubes

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   13.0" / 330 mm   452.00 ft / 137.77 m   13.00 ft / 3.96 m
   Ends:   3.00" / 76 mm   267.00 ft / 81.38 m   10.00 ft / 3.05 m
   Upper:   4.00" / 102 mm   200.00 ft / 60.96 m   10.00 ft / 3.05 m
     Main Belt covers 97 % of normal length

   - Torpedo Bulkhead:
      2.00" / 51 mm   452.00 ft / 137.77 m   38.00 ft / 11.58 m

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   14.0" / 356 mm   6.00" / 152 mm      13.0" / 330 mm
   2nd:   4.00" / 102 mm         -         1.00" / 25 mm
   3rd:   0.50" / 13 mm   0.50" / 13 mm      0.50" / 13 mm

   - Armour deck: 3.00" / 76 mm, Conning tower: 13.00" / 330 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 4 shafts, 80,075 shp / 59,736 Kw = 27.00 kts
   Range 10,000nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 4,144 tons

Complement:
   1,122 - 1,459

Cost:
   £2.582 million / $10.328 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1,469 tons, 5.0 %
   Armour: 9,878 tons, 33.6 %
      - Belts: 3,987 tons, 13.6 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 1,271 tons, 4.3 %
      - Armament: 1,937 tons, 6.6 %
      - Armour Deck: 2,416 tons, 8.2 %
      - Conning Tower: 267 tons, 0.9 %
   Machinery: 3,193 tons, 10.9 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 10,901 tons, 37.1 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 3,664 tons, 12.5 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 310 tons, 1.1 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     34,913 lbs / 15,836 Kg = 20.7 x 15.0 " / 381 mm shells or 5.8 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.13
   Metacentric height 5.6 ft / 1.7 m
   Roll period: 16.4 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.56
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.23

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak
   Block coefficient: 0.486
   Length to Beam Ratio: 7.82 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 26.81 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 46 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 57
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 5.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      30.00 ft / 9.14 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   22.50 ft / 6.86 m
      - Mid (35 %):      22.50 ft / 6.86 m (14.50 ft / 4.42 m aft of break)
      - Quarterdeck (20 %):   14.50 ft / 4.42 m
      - Stern:      14.50 ft / 4.42 m
      - Average freeboard:   17.90 ft / 5.46 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 96.7 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 121.9 %
   Waterplane Area: 43,534 Square feet or 4,044 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 104 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 174 lbs/sq ft or 848 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.97
      - Longitudinal: 1.24
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

[P3D]

The version with 1916 engines and quad 15"s.

Kaap 2, Orange Battleship laid down 1916

Displacement:
   27,500 t light; 28,977 t standard; 31,008 t normal; 32,633 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   721.62 ft / 719.00 ft x 95.00 ft x 32.00 ft (normal load)
   219.95 m / 219.15 m x 28.96 m  x 9.75 m

Armament:
      8 - 15.00" / 381 mm guns (2x4 guns), 1,687.50lbs / 765.44kg shells, 1916 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, evenly spread
      14 - 6.00" / 152 mm guns in single mounts, 108.00lbs / 48.99kg shells, 1916 Model
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts
     on centreline, all forward
     6 guns in hull casemates - Limited use in heavy seas
      8 - 3.00" / 76.2 mm guns in single mounts, 13.50lbs / 6.12kg shells, 1916 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, evenly spread
      8 - 1.00" / 25.4 mm guns in single mounts, 0.50lbs / 0.23kg shells, 1916 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
      8 - 0.36" / 9.2 mm guns in single mounts, 0.02lbs / 0.01kg shells, 1916 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 15,124 lbs / 6,860 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 100
   2 - 21.0" / 533.4 mm submerged torpedo tubes

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   13.0" / 330 mm   470.00 ft / 143.26 m   13.00 ft / 3.96 m
   Ends:   3.00" / 76 mm   249.00 ft / 75.90 m   10.00 ft / 3.05 m
   Upper:   4.00" / 102 mm   200.00 ft / 60.96 m   10.00 ft / 3.05 m
     Main Belt covers 101 % of normal length
     Main belt does not fully cover magazines and engineering spaces

   - Torpedo Bulkhead:
      2.00" / 51 mm   470.00 ft / 143.26 m   38.00 ft / 11.58 m

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   14.0" / 356 mm   7.00" / 178 mm      13.0" / 330 mm
   2nd:   4.00" / 102 mm         -         1.00" / 25 mm
   3rd:   0.50" / 13 mm   0.50" / 13 mm      0.50" / 13 mm

   - Armour deck: 3.00" / 76 mm, Conning tower: 13.00" / 330 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 4 shafts, 83,260 shp / 62,112 Kw = 27.00 kts
   Range 10,000nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 3,656 tons

Complement:
   1,167 - 1,518

Cost:
   £4.884 million / $19.537 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1,891 tons, 6.1 %
   Armour: 10,073 tons, 32.5 %
      - Belts: 4,089 tons, 13.2 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 1,322 tons, 4.3 %
      - Armament: 1,868 tons, 6.0 %
      - Armour Deck: 2,518 tons, 8.1 %
      - Conning Tower: 276 tons, 0.9 %
   Machinery: 3,102 tons, 10.0 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 12,125 tons, 39.1 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 3,508 tons, 11.3 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 310 tons, 1.0 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     34,769 lbs / 15,771 Kg = 20.6 x 15.0 " / 381 mm shells or 5.6 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.11
   Metacentric height 5.6 ft / 1.7 m
   Roll period: 16.8 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 71 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.60
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.21

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak
   Block coefficient: 0.497
   Length to Beam Ratio: 7.57 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 26.81 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 46 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 59
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 5.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      30.00 ft / 9.14 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   22.50 ft / 6.86 m
      - Mid (40 %):      22.50 ft / 6.86 m (14.50 ft / 4.42 m aft of break)
      - Quarterdeck (20 %):   14.50 ft / 4.42 m
      - Stern:      14.50 ft / 4.42 m
      - Average freeboard:   18.30 ft / 5.58 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 102.0 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 127.1 %
   Waterplane Area: 45,366 Square feet or 4,215 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 98 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 188 lbs/sq ft or 916 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.97
      - Longitudinal: 1.31
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

[The Rock Doctor]

Both have lower BC than I think appropriate for a capital ship (even a fast one).  I'm thinking the quad design needs a little more beam, too.

I'd find the first design perfectly fine if only she had the third turret superfiring.  No obvious problems with the quad design, and I happen to be partial to quads.

As to building them - while you can't predict what others may do to Orange, you lack significant offshore possessions and can call on the Furies to take on scouting functions in an emergency.  Assuming you feel you need battlecruisers, I think you could wait the extra year.

[Tanthalas]

Both have lower BC than I think appropriate for a capital ship (even a fast one). 

Some historical BCs had a lower BC than that even (Bayerns among others) not saying your wrong or that it isnt a tad low (I prefer .5 myself) just saying it isnt out of line with historic ships ^.^

[Korpen]

Perceived mission is heavy battleline scout.
I could wait until 1916 and have better engines, but I have to build something in 1915, and that means like two more years to finish even larger fast battleships.
Should I wait that one year and build something interim, or the lack of battlecruisers for another two years is too much of a risk - even if Orange is not planning to get into any war?

Orannje got the most secure strategic situation in the world, so in your shoes I would not feeel hurry to produce a BC one way or the other.

[P3D]

A design study that was not shown to the Ministry of Finance due to concerns over the Minister's weak heart. The penultimate answer to the 'what could be done to counter all those pesky battlecruisers' question (the ultimate one being another 9000t and 4 guns heavier).

Cape 3, Orange Battleship laid down 1916

Displacement:
   41,000 t light; 43,129 t standard; 46,754 t normal; 49,654 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   832.57 ft / 824.00 ft x 103.00 ft x 33.00 ft (normal load)
   253.77 m / 251.16 m x 31.39 m  x 10.06 m

Armament:
      8 - 15.00" / 381 mm guns (2x4 guns), 2,000.00lbs / 907.18kg shells, 1916 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, evenly spread
      14 - 6.00" / 152 mm guns in single mounts, 108.00lbs / 48.99kg shells, 1916 Model
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts
     on centreline, all forward
     6 guns in hull casemates - Limited use in heavy seas
      8 - 3.00" / 76.2 mm guns in single mounts, 13.50lbs / 6.12kg shells, 1916 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, evenly spread
      8 - 1.00" / 25.4 mm guns in single mounts, 0.50lbs / 0.23kg shells, 1916 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
      8 - 0.36" / 9.2 mm guns in single mounts, 0.02lbs / 0.01kg shells, 1916 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 17,624 lbs / 7,994 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 120
   2 - 21.0" / 533.4 mm submerged torpedo tubes

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   13.5" / 343 mm   600.00 ft / 182.88 m   15.00 ft / 4.57 m
   Ends:   4.00" / 102 mm   224.00 ft / 68.28 m   12.00 ft / 3.66 m
   Upper:   6.00" / 152 mm   600.00 ft / 182.88 m   12.00 ft / 3.66 m
     Main Belt covers 112 % of normal length

   - Torpedo Bulkhead:
      2.00" / 51 mm   600.00 ft / 182.88 m   41.00 ft / 12.50 m

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   16.0" / 406 mm   8.00" / 203 mm      15.0" / 381 mm
   2nd:   6.00" / 152 mm         -         1.00" / 25 mm
   3rd:   0.50" / 13 mm   0.50" / 13 mm      0.50" / 13 mm

   - Armour deck: 3.50" / 89 mm, Conning tower: 15.00" / 381 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Electric motors, 4 shafts, 180,767 shp / 134,852 Kw = 31.00 kts
   Range 10,000nm at 14.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 6,525 tons

Complement:
   1,589 - 2,066

Cost:
   £6.490 million / $25.959 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1,891 tons, 4.0 %
   Armour: 15,795 tons, 33.8 %
      - Belts: 7,283 tons, 15.6 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 1,820 tons, 3.9 %
      - Armament: 2,311 tons, 4.9 %
      - Armour Deck: 3,961 tons, 8.5 %
      - Conning Tower: 419 tons, 0.9 %
   Machinery: 6,735 tons, 14.4 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 16,079 tons, 34.4 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 5,754 tons, 12.3 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 500 tons, 1.1 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     54,384 lbs / 24,668 Kg = 32.2 x 15.0 " / 381 mm shells or 8.0 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.17
   Metacentric height 7.0 ft / 2.1 m
   Roll period: 16.3 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 60 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.47
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.00

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak
   Block coefficient: 0.584
   Length to Beam Ratio: 8.00 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 28.71 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 52 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 60
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 15.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      32.00 ft / 9.75 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   24.00 ft / 7.32 m
      - Mid (47 %):      24.00 ft / 7.32 m (16.00 ft / 4.88 m aft of break)
      - Quarterdeck (20 %):   16.00 ft / 4.88 m
      - Stern:      16.00 ft / 4.88 m
      - Average freeboard:   20.40 ft / 6.22 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 99.6 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 143.7 %
   Waterplane Area: 61,166 Square feet or 5,683 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 104 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 189 lbs/sq ft or 923 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.99
      - Longitudinal: 1.04
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent

[P3D]

The second 'vanguarded' Orange BB. Less belt armor available from the old battleships (enough only for 10' of the belt), which necessitated some changes from the previous design. As a result less old armor is used, and the barbettes are of new armor.

Reused stuff  mainly 1000t mounts and guns, and 4200t armor (main, end, upper belt, turret and CT). Saving is 5.4BP and $6.4.

So cost is 13.1BP and $ including refurbishment of armament - increasing gun elevation and updating equipment to use fire control.

Benguela, Orange Battleship laid down 1912

Displacement:
   18,500 t light; 19,395 t standard; 20,863 t normal; 22,037 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   555.00 ft / 555.00 ft x 85.00 ft x 28.00 ft (normal load)
   169.16 m / 169.16 m x 25.91 m  x 8.53 m

Armament:
      8 - 12.00" / 305 mm guns (4x2 guns), 864.00lbs / 391.90kg shells, 1912 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline, evenly spread
     Aft Main mounts separated by engine room
      12 - 6.00" / 152 mm guns in single mounts, 108.00lbs / 48.99kg shells, 1912 Model
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts
     on side, all amidships
      10 - 3.00" / 76.2 mm guns in single mounts, 13.50lbs / 6.12kg shells, 1912 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
      8 - 0.40" / 10.2 mm guns in single mounts, 0.03lbs / 0.01kg shells, 1912 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 8,343 lbs / 3,784 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 100
   4 - 21.0" / 533.4 mm submerged torpedo tubes

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   12.6" / 320 mm   360.00 ft / 109.73 m   14.50 ft / 4.42 m
   Ends:   6.30" / 160 mm   195.00 ft / 59.44 m   10.00 ft / 3.05 m
   Upper:   6.30" / 160 mm   360.00 ft / 109.73 m   7.50 ft / 2.29 m
     Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length

   - Torpedo Bulkhead:
      1.50" / 38 mm   360.00 ft / 109.73 m   27.00 ft / 8.23 m

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   13.7" / 348 mm   7.35" / 187 mm      12.0" / 305 mm
   2nd:   6.30" / 160 mm         -         1.00" / 25 mm
   3rd:   1.00" / 25 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 3.00" / 76 mm, Conning tower: 13.65" / 347 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Electric motors, 2 shafts, 39,484 shp / 29,455 Kw = 23.00 kts
   Range 8,000nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 2,642 tons

Complement:
   867 - 1,128

Cost:
   £1.744 million / $6.976 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1,043 tons, 5.0 %
   Armour: 8,613 tons, 41.3 %
      - Belts: 4,059 tons, 19.5 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 539 tons, 2.6 %
      - Armament: 1,960 tons, 9.4 %
      - Armour Deck: 1,832 tons, 8.8 %
      - Conning Tower: 223 tons, 1.1 %
   Machinery: 1,574 tons, 7.5 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 6,910 tons, 33.1 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,363 tons, 11.3 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 360 tons, 1.7 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     28,400 lbs / 12,882 Kg = 32.9 x 12.0 " / 305 mm shells or 5.1 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.13
   Metacentric height 4.9 ft / 1.5 m
   Roll period: 16.1 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 60 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.44
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.21

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.553
   Length to Beam Ratio: 6.53 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 23.56 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 48 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 49
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      26.00 ft / 7.92 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   16.00 ft / 4.88 m
      - Mid (50 %):      16.00 ft / 4.88 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   16.00 ft / 4.88 m
      - Stern:      16.00 ft / 4.88 m
      - Average freeboard:   16.80 ft / 5.12 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 87.5 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 116.0 %
   Waterplane Area: 33,010 Square feet or 3,067 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 102 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 149 lbs/sq ft or 726 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.96
      - Longitudinal: 1.41
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

[P3D]

The follow-on secret (IC not public) fast battleship study. Nothing official yet, at least the designers cut the weight down a bit. May I present you Gascogne (with 2.5" thinner deck armor than historical)?

Belt is 10* inclined if I get the tech by then. Any larger inclination is felt to leave too large 'gap' for plunging shells. Upper belt only protects the casemated secondaries.  TB comes up to armored deck 8' above WL. The deck above is 9' high. Now the only thing I don't like a bit is the 33' draught. Reducing draught to 31' and increasing beam 2' cost 600t.
About beam. Normandie with 13.4" quads had 88.5' beam, scale it to 15" you get 99'.

That I got the size cut down, to 37000t, I might actually consider building her. However, other nations might find it threatening, so politically it might be have repercussions.

And  some strange SS2 artifact. If I change laydown date to 1912, the composite strength remains unchanged - though the required belt length increases. Any idea why?

Cape 2b, Orange Battleship laid down 1916

Displacement:
   37,000 t light; 38,920 t standard; 41,367 t normal; 43,325 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   770.80 ft / 768.00 ft x 96.00 ft x 33.00 ft (normal load)
   234.94 m / 234.09 m x 29.26 m  x 10.06 m

Armament:
      8 - 15.00" / 381 mm guns (2x4 guns), 2,100.00lbs / 952.54kg shells, 1916 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, evenly spread
      14 - 6.00" / 152 mm guns in single mounts, 108.00lbs / 48.99kg shells, 1916 Model
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts
     on centreline, all forward
     6 guns in hull casemates - Limited use in heavy seas
      8 - 3.00" / 76.2 mm guns in single mounts, 13.50lbs / 6.12kg shells, 1916 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, evenly spread
      8 - 1.00" / 25.4 mm guns in single mounts, 0.50lbs / 0.23kg shells, 1916 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
      8 - 0.36" / 9.2 mm guns in single mounts, 0.02lbs / 0.01kg shells, 1916 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 18,424 lbs / 8,357 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 105
   6 - 21.0" / 533.4 mm submerged torpedo tubes

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   13.2" / 335 mm   570.00 ft / 173.74 m   15.00 ft / 4.57 m
   Ends:   3.05" / 77 mm   198.00 ft / 60.35 m   13.00 ft / 3.96 m
   Upper:   4.00" / 102 mm   260.00 ft / 79.25 m   11.00 ft / 3.35 m
     Main Belt covers 114 % of normal length

   - Torpedo Bulkhead:
      2.00" / 51 mm   570.00 ft / 173.74 m   40.00 ft / 12.19 m

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   15.0" / 381 mm   7.00" / 178 mm      14.0" / 356 mm
   2nd:   4.00" / 102 mm         -         1.00" / 25 mm
   3rd:   0.50" / 13 mm   0.50" / 13 mm      0.50" / 13 mm

   - Armour deck: 3.50" / 89 mm, Conning tower: 14.00" / 356 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Electric motors, 4 shafts, 172,570 shp / 128,737 Kw = 31.00 kts
   Range 10,000nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 4,405 tons

Complement:
   1,449 - 1,885

Cost:
   £6.191 million / $24.763 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1,891 tons, 4.6 %
   Armour: 13,204 tons, 31.9 %
      - Belts: 5,562 tons, 13.4 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 1,687 tons, 4.1 %
      - Armament: 2,119 tons, 5.1 %
      - Armour Deck: 3,476 tons, 8.4 %
      - Conning Tower: 361 tons, 0.9 %
   Machinery: 6,430 tons, 15.5 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 14,991 tons, 36.2 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 4,367 tons, 10.6 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 485 tons, 1.2 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     43,685 lbs / 19,815 Kg = 25.9 x 15.0 " / 381 mm shells or 5.9 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.12
   Metacentric height 5.8 ft / 1.8 m
   Roll period: 16.8 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 60 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.75
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.00

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak
   Block coefficient: 0.595
   Length to Beam Ratio: 8.00 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 27.71 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 55 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 60
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 5.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      32.00 ft / 9.75 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   25.00 ft / 7.62 m
      - Mid (56 %):      25.00 ft / 7.62 m (17.00 ft / 5.18 m aft of break)
      - Quarterdeck (20 %):   17.00 ft / 5.18 m
      - Stern:      17.00 ft / 5.18 m
      - Average freeboard:   22.04 ft / 6.72 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 113.7 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 153.8 %
   Waterplane Area: 53,676 Square feet or 4,987 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 99 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 192 lbs/sq ft or 940 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.97
      - Longitudinal: 1.30
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent

[Guinness]

When do the limits on HP per shaft go away? Is it:

1913: Engine year 1916, Max. Turbine power

or

1917: Engine year 1920, unlimited power/shaft

?? I've always found those two to be a bit ambiguous. It hadn't mattered to me yet, so I hadn't gotten around to asking.

On 37,000t she seems a very capable ship. Her .595 Block coefficient seems a little portly for such a fast ship though.

[P3D]

There was a shaft HP limit before it was edited out after I left modding.

BCwise, G3 was around 0.59, Iowa around 0.62.