Orange Capital Ships - Old Thread

[P3D]

I could install 8x12" on basically the same hull without much change in SS. Not a good deal IMO.

[Korpen]

I could install 8x12" on basically the same hull without much change in SS. Not a good deal IMO.

Without much loss effective in protection you could get something like this:
She is 0,4 kts slower, but that is irrelevant in almost any situation, and the huge increase in firepower more then compensates.

BB21-4, No Country Battleship laid down 1907 (Engine 1909)

Displacement:
   21 100 t light; 22 506 t standard; 24 834 t normal; 26 696 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   607,82 ft / 593,83 ft x 89,90 ft x 27,89 ft (normal load)
   185,26 m / 181,00 m x 27,40 m  x 8,50 m

Armament:
      8 - 13,78" / 350 mm guns (4x2 guns), 1 344,82lbs / 610,00kg shells, 1907 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts
     Aft Main mounts separated by engine room
      14 - 5,91" / 150 mm guns in single mounts, 99,21lbs / 45,00kg shells, 1907 Model
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts
     on side, all amidships
     4 guns in hull casemates - Limited use in heavy seas
      8 - 3,46" / 88,0 mm guns in single mounts, 19,84lbs / 9,00kg shells, 1907 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 12 306 lbs / 5 582 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 130

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   13,0" / 330 mm   377,30 ft / 115,00 m   13,78 ft / 4,20 m
   Ends:   2,95" / 75 mm   216,54 ft / 66,00 m   9,84 ft / 3,00 m
   Upper:   5,91" / 150 mm   377,30 ft / 115,00 m   7,87 ft / 2,40 m
     Main Belt covers 98 % of normal length

   - Torpedo Bulkhead:
      1,34" / 34 mm   377,30 ft / 115,00 m   26,25 ft / 8,00 m

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   12,2" / 310 mm   5,12" / 130 mm      11,7" / 298 mm
   2nd:   5,51" / 140 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 2,17" / 55 mm, Conning tower: 11,02" / 280 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 4 shafts, 48 000 shp / 35 808 Kw = 23,58 kts
   Range 9 975nm at 12,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 4 191 tons

Complement:
   988 - 1 285

Cost:
   £2,312 million / $9,247 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1 509 tons, 6,1 %
   Armour: 8 338 tons, 33,6 %
      - Belts: 3 959 tons, 15,9 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 490 tons, 2,0 %
      - Armament: 2 146 tons, 8,6 %
      - Armour Deck: 1 541 tons, 6,2 %
      - Conning Tower: 202 tons, 0,8 %
   Machinery: 2 182 tons, 8,8 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 8 951 tons, 36,0 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 3 734 tons, 15,0 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 120 tons, 0,5 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     28 918 lbs / 13 117 Kg = 22,1 x 13,8 " / 350 mm shells or 4,7 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,12
   Metacentric height 5,3 ft / 1,6 m
   Roll period: 16,4 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 55 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,55
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1,10

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak
   Block coefficient: 0,584
   Length to Beam Ratio: 6,61 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 24,37 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 49 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 25,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 3,28 ft / 1,00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      22,97 ft / 7,00 m
      - Forecastle (18 %):   21,00 ft / 6,40 m
      - Mid (37 %):      21,00 ft / 6,40 m (13,12 ft / 4,00 m aft of break)
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   13,12 ft / 4,00 m
      - Stern:      13,12 ft / 4,00 m
      - Average freeboard:   16,18 ft / 4,93 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 97,7 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 113,9 %
   Waterplane Area: 38 458 Square feet or 3 573 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 100 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 171 lbs/sq ft or 837 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,97
      - Longitudinal: 1,26
      - Overall: 1,00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate

EDIT: I Really hate that springsharp does not save the ship exactly...

[P3D]

I design my ships to full knots, as the 0.4kts difference does not matter. Somehow we muct make a distinction that what speed difference matters.

And I cannot have superfiring turrets. Moreover, being good seaboat is a minimal requirement for my ships.

[Korpen]

I design my ships to full knots, as the 0.4kts difference does not matter. Somehow we muct make a distinction that what speed difference matters.

And I cannot have superfiring turrets. Moreover, being good seaboat is a minimal requirement for my ships.

Welll, neither can i, so i will also build ships with six main gun. ;)
But mine will be 5k tons smaller.
And i usually set speed to a certain HP, in this case to the maximum 48000 shp.
Also, i prefer to crank up the stability of my ship, at the cost of steadiness and seakeeping, it is not like the ship is a bad seaboat in any way.
Different design philosophies i guess. Still i think it is a nice design.

As for when difference in speed matters, anything less then 3-4 knots will not be tactically significant unless you simply want to run away, and then such things as capacity to run at full speed for hours matter more then top speed.

[The Rock Doctor]

Orange has the ability to produce an all-oil-firing design already?  Where's the oil coming from?


A line drawing would be good - this looks rather crowded.

[Borys]

There are couple of natural oil puddles near Luanda - 60 wooden caskets a year. They buy the rest from the the UNA or Russia etc.
Sadly, the Austrian surplus is all snapped up by the DKB. 
:D
Borys

[Korpen]

There are couple of natural oil puddles near Luanda - 60 wooden caskets a year. They buy the rest from the the UNA or Russia etc.
Sadly, the Austrian surplus is all snapped up by the DKB. 
:D
Borys

Or Me :)
Pretty much all my colonies got oil in them even if the oil in the Caribbean is not yet found, nor is most of the oil around the mouth of the kongo river (Cabinda).

As three of my bases in the NOI is either sitting next to large refineries, or next to oil well, there is large pressure to switch to oil firing in the Dutch navy, for some reason the captains are nervous about shipping coal to the NOI when there is limitless amounts of oil all around them.

[The Rock Doctor]

Anybody can import oil, from the few places where it is currently known and extracted.  However, now Orange will have a trade protection function to undertake, and DKB will have something for those raiders to do.

As an aside, I'd expect that oil-firing ships would first be built by those nations actually owning oil, but that's a small matter.

[P3D]

I think that few puddles is Angola could at least provide as much oil as the Galizian fields.
Which is IMO not delivered to the DKB, which just on the other side of the globe.
Nevertheless, I have to import oil, while the domestic supply is enough for the navy, not for the increasing domestic consumption. I thnik Orange is buying from Persia, that's the closest one.

The Cabinda oil is I think offshore, more than the Angolan one.

[Korpen]

I think that few puddles is Angola could at least provide as much oil as the Galizian fields.
Which is IMO not delivered to the DKB, which just on the other side of the globe.
Nevertheless, I have to import oil, while the domestic supply is enough for the navy, not for the increasing domestic consumption. I thnik Orange is buying from Persia, that's the closest one.

The Cabinda oil is I think offshore, more than the Angolan one.

Yes, most of the Cabinda oil is offshore, but less so then the rest of angola, were it it pretty much all off shore.
But nither of us can go after that oil for quite some time...

[swamphen]

I think that few puddles is Angola could at least provide as much oil as the Galizian fields.
Which is IMO not delivered to the DKB, which just on the other side of the globe.

Brandenburg reached an agreement with the Habsburgs back in...1903 was it Borys?...to purchase the surplus from the Austrian oil fields. It was in part an Oil-for-Food deal, over the Hard Winter, as I recall.

[Ithekro]

I'd image Rohan has oil someplace (probably around the Sea of Rhun and maybe Mordar as those were suppose to have been under an inland sea during the First Age), plus the oil in Alberta.  There certainly will be oil off the coast with all that First Age landmass now under the waves for 14,668 years.  Even if it hasn't been probed in full yet, Rohan as access to the Confederate States of America, which has probably the largest supply of oil produced in the world at present.

So Orange doesn't want to try for an Invincible type fast battleship with 13.4" wing turrets?  It might not be all that impossible to do, just that by the time the guns were their, centerline turrets were a better savings of space and had better effective value on the broadside.

[Borys]

Yes, it was in 1903. It gave me the pretext to bring some measure of Gov't control over the oilfields (under Austrian law you need Gov't permisions and stuf for "mineables", and oil wasn't a "mineable" commodity).

So I suppose my production will not equal the OTL 1908 peak (2M tons, ie. 14 M barrels), but I also hope that it will not drop off so much. Let us say I'm producing 1,5M tons, or c. 10 M barrels.

Borys

[P3D]

Orange 1907 Fast BB (Engine 1909)

Displacement:
   22,505 t light; 23,830 t standard; 25,753 t normal; 27,291 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   557.00 ft / 557.00 ft x 93.00 ft x 29.00 ft (normal load)
   169.77 m / 169.77 m x 28.35 m  x 8.84 m

Armament:
      8 - 13.50" / 343 mm guns (4x2 guns), 1,230.19lbs / 558.00kg shells, 1907 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on side, evenly spread
     Aft Main mounts separated by engine room
      16 - 6.00" / 152 mm guns in single mounts, 108.00lbs / 48.99kg shells, 1907 Model
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts
     on side, all amidships
      16 - 3.00" / 76.2 mm guns in single mounts, 13.50lbs / 6.12kg shells, 1907 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, 8 raised mounts
      8 - 0.40" / 10.2 mm guns in single mounts, 0.03lbs / 0.01kg shells, 1907 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 11,786 lbs / 5,346 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 120
   6 - 20.0" / 508 mm submerged torpedo tubes

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   13.7" / 347 mm   350.00 ft / 106.68 m   13.00 ft / 3.96 m
   Ends:   6.30" / 160 mm   207.00 ft / 63.09 m   13.00 ft / 3.96 m
   Upper:   6.30" / 160 mm   350.00 ft / 106.68 m   8.00 ft / 2.44 m
     Main Belt covers 97 % of normal length

   - Torpedo Bulkhead:
      1.50" / 38 mm   350.00 ft / 106.68 m   30.00 ft / 9.14 m

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   14.7" / 373 mm   9.45" / 240 mm      13.7" / 347 mm
   3rd:   6.30" / 160 mm   1.00" / 25 mm      1.00" / 25 mm

   - Armour deck: 2.88" / 73 mm, Conning tower: 14.70" / 373 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 4 shafts, 47,823 shp / 35,676 Kw = 23.20 kts
   Range 8,000nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 3,461 tons

Complement:
   1,016 - 1,321

Cost:
   £2.330 million / $9.318 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1,473 tons, 5.7 %
   Armour: 9,868 tons, 38.3 %
      - Belts: 4,173 tons, 16.2 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 583 tons, 2.3 %
      - Armament: 2,817 tons, 10.9 %
      - Armour Deck: 2,019 tons, 7.8 %
      - Conning Tower: 276 tons, 1.1 %
   Machinery: 2,174 tons, 8.4 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 8,845 tons, 34.3 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 3,248 tons, 12.6 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 145 tons, 0.6 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     31,439 lbs / 14,260 Kg = 25.6 x 13.5 " / 343 mm shells or 5.1 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.07
   Metacentric height 5.1 ft / 1.6 m
   Roll period: 17.3 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.59
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.20

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak
   Block coefficient: 0.600
   Length to Beam Ratio: 5.99 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 23.60 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 51 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 58
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      28.00 ft / 8.53 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   22.50 ft / 6.86 m
      - Mid (53 %):      22.50 ft / 6.86 m (15.00 ft / 4.57 m aft of break)
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   15.00 ft / 4.57 m
      - Stern:      15.00 ft / 4.57 m
      - Average freeboard:   19.42 ft / 5.92 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 96.1 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 133.6 %
   Waterplane Area: 37,886 Square feet or 3,520 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 98 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 168 lbs/sq ft or 819 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.94
      - Longitudinal: 1.61
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

[swamphen]

Which one is (are) the design(s) actually being built?