Orange Frigates

[P3D]

The light version with mixed (VTE+Turbine) propulsion.
The 1000HP VTE is driving the turbine shaft through a simple gear, and a clutch disengages the VTE if the turbine is turned on. It would work due to the relatively low torques involved.

Orange Sloop type laid down 1909

Displacement:
   1,000 t light; 1,042 t standard; 1,253 t normal; 1,422 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   229.00 ft / 229.00 ft x 33.00 ft x 12.00 ft (normal load)
   69.80 m / 69.80 m x 10.06 m  x 3.66 m

Armament:
      2 - 6.00" / 152 mm guns in single mounts, 108.00lbs / 48.99kg shells, 1909 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on centreline ends, evenly spread
      2 - 3.00" / 76.2 mm guns in single mounts, 13.50lbs / 6.12kg shells, 1909 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, all amidships, all raised mounts - superfiring
   Weight of broadside 243 lbs / 110 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 120
   2 - 21.0" / 533.4 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   1.00" / 25 mm   137.00 ft / 41.76 m   10.00 ft / 3.05 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 92 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   1.00" / 25 mm         -               -
   2nd:   1.00" / 25 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 1.00" / 25 mm, Conning tower: 2.00" / 51 mm

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, reciprocating cruising steam engines plus steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 1 shaft, 3,527 ihp / 2,631 Kw = 18.00 kts
   Range 4,000nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 380 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   104 - 136

Cost:
   £0.090 million / $0.362 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 30 tons, 2.4 %
   Armour: 167 tons, 13.3 %
      - Belts: 60 tons, 4.8 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 10 tons, 0.8 %
      - Armour Deck: 92 tons, 7.3 %
      - Conning Tower: 5 tons, 0.4 %
   Machinery: 214 tons, 17.1 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 501 tons, 40.0 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 253 tons, 20.2 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 88 tons, 7.0 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     2,040 lbs / 925 Kg = 18.9 x 6.0 " / 152 mm shells or 0.8 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.14
   Metacentric height 1.2 ft / 0.4 m
   Roll period: 12.5 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 80 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.60
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 2.00

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak
   Block coefficient: 0.484
   Length to Beam Ratio: 6.94 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 15.13 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 54 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 40
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      19.00 ft / 5.79 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   18.50 ft / 5.64 m
      - Mid (40 %):      18.50 ft / 5.64 m (11.00 ft / 3.35 m aft of break)
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   11.00 ft / 3.35 m
      - Stern:      11.00 ft / 3.35 m
      - Average freeboard:   14.04 ft / 4.28 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 82.0 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 98.9 %
   Waterplane Area: 4,961 Square feet or 461 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 135 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 52 lbs/sq ft or 255 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.82
      - Longitudinal: 5.48
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

[P3D]

The first reports on the casemated frigates(cruiser) were not unanimously positive. Main complaint was that firing directly forward blast from the casemated guns interferes with the operation of the fore mount. The next frigate design is an economy one. Several cost-cutting measures were implemented. An all centerline mount arrangement was chosen with only 5 guns, still capable of a 5-gun broadside or firing 2 guns to each end. Range reduced, speed kept at 27kts with more modern engines. Thinning armor from 4" to 3" would save another 200-250t.

Orange Frigate laid down 1912

Displacement:
   3,499 t light; 3,649 t standard; 4,058 t normal; 4,385 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   389.10 ft / 387.00 ft x 43.00 ft x 18.00 ft (normal load)
   118.60 m / 117.96 m x 13.11 m  x 5.49 m

Armament:
      5 - 6.00" / 152 mm guns in single mounts, 108.00lbs / 48.99kg shells, 1912 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on centreline, distributed, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
      4 - 3.00" / 76.2 mm guns in single mounts, 13.50lbs / 6.12kg shells, 1912 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, all amidships
      8 - 0.39" / 10.0 mm guns (4x2 guns), 0.03lbs / 0.01kg shells, 1912 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 594 lbs / 270 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 200
   8 - 21.0" / 533.4 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   4.00" / 102 mm   280.00 ft / 85.34 m   10.00 ft / 3.05 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
   Upper:   4.00" / 102 mm     0.00 ft / 0.00 m   0.00 ft / 0.00 m
     Main Belt covers 111 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   2.00" / 51 mm   1.00" / 25 mm      1.00" / 25 mm

   - Armour deck: 1.00" / 25 mm, Conning tower: 4.00" / 102 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 29,134 shp / 21,734 Kw = 27.00 kts
   Range 6,000nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 737 tons

Complement:
   253 - 330

Cost:
   £0.348 million / $1.390 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 74 tons, 1.8 %
   Armour: 718 tons, 17.7 %
      - Belts: 461 tons, 11.4 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 34 tons, 0.8 %
      - Armour Deck: 200 tons, 4.9 %
      - Conning Tower: 22 tons, 0.5 %
   Machinery: 1,162 tons, 28.6 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 1,412 tons, 34.8 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 559 tons, 13.8 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 134 tons, 3.3 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     3,699 lbs / 1,678 Kg = 34.2 x 6.0 " / 152 mm shells or 0.8 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.11
   Metacentric height 1.7 ft / 0.5 m
   Roll period: 13.7 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.50
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.25

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak
   Block coefficient: 0.474
   Length to Beam Ratio: 9.00 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 19.67 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 59 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 56
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 5.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      24.00 ft / 7.32 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   20.00 ft / 6.10 m
      - Mid (39 %):      20.00 ft / 6.10 m (13.00 ft / 3.96 m aft of break)
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   13.00 ft / 3.96 m
      - Stern:      13.00 ft / 3.96 m
      - Average freeboard:   16.05 ft / 4.89 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 111.2 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 82.1 %
   Waterplane Area: 10,834 Square feet or 1,007 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 108 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 71 lbs/sq ft or 347 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.90
      - Longitudinal: 2.39
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is cramped
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

[P3D]

No comments?  :(

[Tanthalas]

im still trying to digest the VTE and Turbin ship, they look solid to me im just not to sure on the combining of the 2 drive types.

[Korpen]

No comments?  :(

Sorry. :(

But i find her to comment on, she is very nice, conventional and well balanced.
There is nothing that really catches my eye except the upper belt, was it intended that she should have one?

If thinning the belt to 75mm, how much more extensive would it be?
The belt she got is nice, but considering the kind of shells used against cruisers, it might be worth going for maximum volume.

[P3D]

Tanthalas:
The cruising VTE engine would be a 800 HP one, with a simple mechanical coupling to disengage when the Turbine is turned on. Having no geared turbines I needed an cruising engine, and this seemed the best solution (even if a bit complicated). Three screws for an underpowered 1000t vessel is too expensive.

I assumed it won't require the tech Geared Turbines.

Korpen:
No upper belt, that's leftover from a design I used as a starting point.
3" would allow extending the belt by 2.5', don't know if worths it.
Glad you like it.

[Tanthalas]

I dont think you should need Geard to do that, also i dont see any reason for you not to do it, it just seamd a tad complex for my tastes (having known several sailors they tend to do stupid stuff)  but all in all looks good to me

[Desertfox]

Well appart from looking like a clone of my own LC Osprey design, only comment would be about the extra heavy gun armor.

[The Rock Doctor]

I think it's a pretty sturdy design.  If you were to knock maybe five tonnes out of the miscellaneous weight, you'd probably find the ship no longer rated as "cramped". 

[P3D]

Well appart from looking like a clone of my own LC Osprey design, only comment would be about the extra heavy gun armor.

Yawn. If clone of anything, of RN light cruisers. Not obsolete protected deck designs.

[P3D]

Decided to cut down the size of the budget frigate, and realized the draft is a bit deep. One 6" was exchanged for another 3" guns - placing three on the centerline. At the end managed to squeeze it into 3100t. TTs are on the sides (or 2x3 on centerline, haven't decided).

Misc. weight is FC/torpedoes/WT.
Now let's find some BP to build them.

Orange Economy Frigate laid down 1912

Displacement:
   3,100 t light; 3,231 t standard; 3,613 t normal; 3,919 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   392.10 ft / 390.00 ft x 39.00 ft x 16.00 ft (normal load)
   119.51 m / 118.87 m x 11.89 m  x 4.88 m

Armament:
      4 - 6.00" / 152 mm guns in single mounts, 108.00lbs / 48.99kg shells, 1912 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
      3 - 3.00" / 76.2 mm guns in single mounts, 13.50lbs / 6.12kg shells, 1912 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on centreline ends, majority forward, all raised mounts - superfiring
      2 - 3.00" / 76.2 mm guns in single mounts, 13.50lbs / 6.12kg shells, 1912 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, all amidships
      8 - 0.39" / 10.0 mm guns (4x2 guns), 0.03lbs / 0.01kg shells, 1912 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 500 lbs / 227 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 200
   8 - 21.0" / 533.4 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   3.00" / 76 mm   292.00 ft / 89.00 m   10.00 ft / 3.05 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 115 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   1.00" / 25 mm   0.50" / 13 mm      1.00" / 25 mm

   - Armour deck: 1.00" / 25 mm, Conning tower: 3.00" / 76 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 27,166 shp / 20,266 Kw = 27.00 kts
   Range 6,000nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 688 tons

Complement:
   232 - 302

Cost:
   £0.313 million / $1.251 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 62 tons, 1.7 %
   Armour: 577 tons, 16.0 %
      - Belts: 357 tons, 9.9 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 14 tons, 0.4 %
      - Armour Deck: 191 tons, 5.3 %
      - Conning Tower: 15 tons, 0.4 %
   Machinery: 1,083 tons, 30.0 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 1,247 tons, 34.5 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 513 tons, 14.2 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 130 tons, 3.6 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     3,009 lbs / 1,365 Kg = 27.9 x 6.0 " / 152 mm shells or 0.7 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.10
   Metacentric height 1.5 ft / 0.4 m
   Roll period: 13.5 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.57
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.20

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak
   Block coefficient: 0.520
   Length to Beam Ratio: 10.00 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 19.75 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 58 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 58
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 5.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      24.00 ft / 7.32 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   20.00 ft / 6.10 m
      - Mid (33 %):      20.00 ft / 6.10 m (12.00 ft / 3.66 m aft of break)
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   12.00 ft / 3.66 m
      - Stern:      12.00 ft / 3.66 m
      - Average freeboard:   14.96 ft / 4.56 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 115.1 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 73.5 %
   Waterplane Area: 10,318 Square feet or 959 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 107 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 66 lbs/sq ft or 323 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.92
      - Longitudinal: 2.00
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is cramped
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

[Korpen]

Decided to cut down the size of the budget frigate, and realized the draft is a bit deep. One 6" was exchanged for another 3" guns - placing three on the centerline. At the end managed to squeeze it into 3100t. TTs are on the sides (or 2x3 on centerline, haven't decided).

Misc. weight is FC/torpedoes/WT.
Now let's find some BP to build them.

That is once cramped ship.
Still I see no problem with fitting the weapons, there are similar sized ships with 7 centreline gun mounts around. However I have some doubts about trying to squeeze in two centreline torpedo mounts in addition to the guns.

[P3D]

Orange is planning building korvettes (destroyers) in 1913. Planned fast frigate to lead these destroyer divisions.

Orange Korvette Leader Frigate laid down 1912

Displacement:
   4,201 t light; 4,376 t standard; 4,762 t normal; 5,071 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   434.00 ft / 434.00 ft x 41.00 ft x 19.00 ft (normal load)
   132.28 m / 132.28 m x 12.50 m  x 5.79 m

Armament:
      6 - 6.00" / 152 mm guns in single mounts, 108.00lbs / 48.99kg shells, 1912 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
      4 - 3.00" / 76.2 mm guns in single mounts, 13.50lbs / 6.12kg shells, 1912 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on side, all amidships
      8 - 0.39" / 9.9 mm guns in single mounts, 0.03lbs / 0.01kg shells, 1912 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 702 lbs / 319 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 200
   8 - 21.0" / 533.4 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   3.00" / 76 mm   360.00 ft / 109.73 m   10.00 ft / 3.05 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 128 % of normal length
     Main belt does not fully cover magazines and engineering spaces

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   2.00" / 51 mm   1.00" / 25 mm      1.00" / 25 mm

   - Armour deck: 1.00" / 25 mm, Conning tower: 4.00" / 102 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Electric motors, 4 shafts, 40,440 shp / 30,168 Kw = 29.00 kts
   Range 5,000nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 694 tons

Complement:
   286 - 372

Cost:
   £0.446 million / $1.786 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 88 tons, 1.8 %
   Armour: 715 tons, 15.0 %
      - Belts: 432 tons, 9.1 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 40 tons, 0.8 %
      - Armour Deck: 218 tons, 4.6 %
      - Conning Tower: 24 tons, 0.5 %
   Machinery: 1,612 tons, 33.8 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 1,637 tons, 34.4 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 561 tons, 11.8 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 150 tons, 3.1 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     3,106 lbs / 1,409 Kg = 28.8 x 6.0 " / 152 mm shells or 0.7 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.08
   Metacentric height 1.5 ft / 0.5 m
   Roll period: 13.9 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.64
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.20

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.493
   Length to Beam Ratio: 10.59 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 20.83 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 58 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 58
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      23.00 ft / 7.01 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   21.00 ft / 6.40 m
      - Mid (50 %):      13.00 ft / 3.96 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   13.00 ft / 3.96 m
      - Stern:      13.00 ft / 3.96 m
      - Average freeboard:   15.96 ft / 4.86 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 127.8 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 80.4 %
   Waterplane Area: 11,781 Square feet or 1,094 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 99 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 72 lbs/sq ft or 353 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.92
      - Longitudinal: 2.04
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is cramped
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

[The Rock Doctor]

I think one or two AA guns is about as many as is necessary in this time period.

The belt is, for some reason, not long enought to please SS.

Otherwise, I think it's a good design.

[Sachmle]

1914 Cutting Edge (+3): High angle artillery (40-80mm) = 15,000 feet

Unless I missed a wormhole somewhere, you can't put 76mm AA on her anyway, at least not until 1915 w/ one really lucky roll.