Swiss Raider 1910

[The Rock Doctor]

If Scharnhorst has been effective at disrupting Swiss trade, I'd expect to see some impact on the Swiss budget in 1908.

I'd be curious to know what the Swiss battlecruisers are up to, as I've not even seen them named in a battle report so far.

[Desertfox]

Mainly because your Turbina commanders are smart enough to back off under a hail of fire.

Unlike some of my other commanders. *grumble, grumble*

Rocky, if you only knew how close those BCs have come to battle, it's scary.

[Walter]

Heretic! Blasphemer! Burn him!!

The Holy Iron Chain Knights would glady help you out with that. :)

There is something in the Pacific that can kill her.

Yes, I have seen it and it is mine! Mine!!!!! ;D
(Remember March 20, 1901?
http://www.navalism.org/index.php?topic=459.0 )

Mainly because your Turbina commanders are smart enough to back off under a hail of fire.

More likely way before that (and not because they were smart)...
The infamous Sir Robin Maneuver. :D

The Brave New Swiss ran away.
Bravely ran away, away!
When danger reared its ugly head,
They bravely turned their tails and fled.
Yes, brave New Swiss, they turned about
And gallantly they chickened out.
Bravely taking to their feet
They beat a very brave retreat,
Bravest of the brave, the New Swiss!
;D

lyrics taken from http://www.stmoroky.com/sirrobin/song.htm

[swamphen]

There is something in the Pacific that can kill her.

Yes, I have seen it and it is mine! Mine!!!!! ;D
(Remember March 20, 1901?
http://www.navalism.org/index.php?topic=459.0 )

(And don't forget this either:
http://www.navalism.org/index.php?topic=457.0 )  ;D

[Walter]

Couldn't find that bit right away. I wasn't sure how to look for it with the search option.

[The Rock Doctor]

Arrgh...speak up, I can't hear you!

[Walter]

I said...
Couldn't find that bit right away!!! I wasn't sure how to look for it with the search option!!!

[The Rock Doctor]

That's better.

[maddox]

AAAAAAAAAAAAh; my eyes My EYES

[Desertfox]

Getting back on topic,


Different version, fits in Type 2 Dock, 10" instead of 11", full armor belt, less deck armor, coal and oil fired (coal bunkers behind belt), 600 tons lighter. For an extra 1,000 tons I can fit in 11" guns, but then I would have to develop them increasing the overall cost.

As for the Pocket Battleships, they have been much malingned, but one of them the Admiral Scheer holds the All Time Record for Tonnage Sunk by a Surface Warship.


Interceptor, New Switzerland Raider laid down 1912

Displacement:
   11,400 t light; 12,025 t standard; 16,432 t normal; 19,957 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   557.00 ft / 557.00 ft x 70.00 ft x 29.50 ft (normal load)
   169.77 m / 169.77 m x 21.34 m  x 8.99 m

Armament:
      8 - 10.00" / 254 mm guns (4x2 guns), 500.00lbs / 226.80kg shells, 1912 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, evenly spread, 1 raised mount - superfiring
      14 - 4.00" / 102 mm guns in single mounts, 32.00lbs / 14.51kg shells, 1912 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
      8 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm guns (4x2 guns), 2.00lbs / 0.91kg shells, 1912 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 4,464 lbs / 2,025 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 116
   6 - 19.7" / 500.38 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   4.00" / 102 mm   557.00 ft / 169.77 m   12.00 ft / 3.66 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 154 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   7.00" / 178 mm   4.00" / 102 mm      7.00" / 178 mm

   - Armour deck: 1.57" / 40 mm, Conning tower: 7.00" / 178 mm

Machinery:
   Coal and oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Electric motors, 4 shafts, 61,222 shp / 45,672 Kw = 27.00 kts
   Range 15,000nm at 15.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 7,933 tons (50% coal)

Complement:
   725 - 943

Cost:
   £1.226 million / $4.903 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 558 tons, 3.4 %
   Armour: 2,718 tons, 16.5 %
      - Belts: 989 tons, 6.0 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 877 tons, 5.3 %
      - Armour Deck: 755 tons, 4.6 %
      - Conning Tower: 97 tons, 0.6 %
   Machinery: 2,557 tons, 15.6 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 5,417 tons, 33.0 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 5,031 tons, 30.6 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 150 tons, 0.9 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     20,635 lbs / 9,360 Kg = 41.3 x 10.0 " / 254 mm shells or 2.4 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.11
   Metacentric height 3.5 ft / 1.1 m
   Roll period: 15.6 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 71 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.68
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.21

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has low quarterdeck
   Block coefficient: 0.500
   Length to Beam Ratio: 7.96 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 23.60 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 53 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 59
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      24.00 ft / 7.32 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   19.00 ft / 5.79 m
      - Mid (40 %):      19.00 ft / 5.79 m
      - Quarterdeck (25 %):   15.00 ft / 4.57 m (19.00 ft / 5.79 m before break)
      - Stern:      15.00 ft / 4.57 m
      - Average freeboard:   18.40 ft / 5.61 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 77.8 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 117.6 %
   Waterplane Area: 25,978 Square feet or 2,413 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 132 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 129 lbs/sq ft or 631 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.94
      - Longitudinal: 1.80
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

[Jefgte]

Hi DesertFox,

After much Panzerschiff studies, I think that 280mm guns are too heavy for a 12000T cruiser raider (Panzerschiff)

I agree with your choice, 254 or 260mm are enought & you can increase the protection & /or the speed.



Jef

[Blooded]

Hello,

I always liked the 'Pocket' BBs. Clever idea. For the purpose 8" would have probably sufficed.

Too bad SS can't cope with Diesel Engine advantages and disadvantages(ie no difference- same goes for Electric/Geared Propulsion)

[Borys]

As for the Pocket Battleships, they have been much malingned, but one of them the Admiral Scheer holds the All Time Record for Tonnage Sunk by a Surface Warship.

Which arguably could also had been achieved with handworked deck 15cm guns :)

Borys

[Desertfox]

Actually not as Scheer did run into an AMC, and you can't beat an AMC with a single 6" gun.

[Desertfox]

Reviving an old topic, here is the updated version:

Mainly more speed.

Interceptor, New Switzerland Raider laid down 1916

Displacement:
   12,700 t light; 13,311 t standard; 16,543 t normal; 19,129 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   557.00 ft / 557.00 ft x 70.00 ft x 29.70 ft (normal load)
   169.77 m / 169.77 m x 21.34 m  x 9.05 m

Armament:
      8 - 10.00" / 254 mm guns (4x2 guns), 500.00lbs / 226.80kg shells, 1916 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, evenly spread, 1 raised mount - superfiring
      14 - 4.00" / 102 mm guns in single mounts, 32.00lbs / 14.51kg shells, 1916 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
      8 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm guns (4x2 guns), 1.95lbs / 0.88kg shells, 1916 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 4,464 lbs / 2,025 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 110
   6 - 19.7" / 500.38 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   4.00" / 102 mm   557.00 ft / 169.77 m   12.00 ft / 3.66 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 154 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   7.00" / 178 mm   4.00" / 102 mm      7.00" / 178 mm

   - Armour deck: 1.70" / 43 mm, Conning tower: 7.00" / 178 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Electric motors, 4 shafts, 94,064 shp / 70,171 Kw = 30.00 kts
   Range 15,000nm at 15.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 5,818 tons

Complement:
   729 - 948

Cost:
   £2.297 million / $9.189 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 558 tons, 3.4 %
   Armour: 2,841 tons, 17.2 %
      - Belts: 989 tons, 6.0 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 937 tons, 5.7 %
      - Armour Deck: 817 tons, 4.9 %
      - Conning Tower: 98 tons, 0.6 %
   Machinery: 3,505 tons, 21.2 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 5,656 tons, 34.2 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 3,843 tons, 23.2 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 140 tons, 0.8 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     17,826 lbs / 8,086 Kg = 35.7 x 10.0 " / 254 mm shells or 1.9 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.13
   Metacentric height 3.7 ft / 1.1 m
   Roll period: 15.3 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 51 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.63
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.00

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has low quarterdeck
   Block coefficient: 0.500
   Length to Beam Ratio: 7.96 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 23.60 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 58 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 51
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      27.00 ft / 8.23 m
      - Forecastle (25 %):   21.00 ft / 6.40 m
      - Mid (40 %):      21.00 ft / 6.40 m
      - Quarterdeck (25 %):   15.00 ft / 4.57 m (21.00 ft / 6.40 m before break)
      - Stern:      15.00 ft / 4.57 m
      - Average freeboard:   20.10 ft / 6.13 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 95.4 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 129.2 %
   Waterplane Area: 25,978 Square feet or 2,413 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 114 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 132 lbs/sq ft or 644 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.92
      - Longitudinal: 1.95
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent



Rough idea of how she would look (and the ship that inspired this idea):



That is one of Jeftg's many awesome models.