Torpedo Frigate... and more (for 08/09)

[Carthaginian]

The Confederate Navy suffers from a plethora of lighter ships, many with poor armament and inferior armor for their intended jobs.  The Patomic-class frigate is an attempt to remedy these problems and produce a standard small vessel for the CSN which is inexpensive, easily produced and requires only a small complement.



Patomic, Confederate States of America Frigate laid down 1908 (Engine 1909)

Displacement:
   2,500 t light; 2,630 t standard; 2,943 t normal; 3,193 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   340.00 ft / 340.00 ft x 34.00 ft x 18.00 ft (normal load)
   103.63 m / 103.63 m x 10.36 m  x 5.49 m

Armament:
      2 - 6.00" / 152 mm guns in single mounts, 100.00lbs / 45.36kg shells, 1908 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on centreline ends, evenly spread
      4 - 6.00" / 152 mm guns in single mounts, 100.00lbs / 45.36kg shells, 1908 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, evenly spread
      6 - 4.00" / 102 mm guns in single mounts, 25.00lbs / 11.34kg shells, 1908 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
      8 - 1.00" / 25.4 mm guns in single mounts, 0.50lbs / 0.23kg shells, 1908 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 754 lbs / 342 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 150

Armour:
   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   1.00" / 25 mm         -         2.00" / 51 mm
   2nd:   1.00" / 25 mm         -         2.00" / 51 mm
   3rd:   1.00" / 25 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 2.00" / 51 mm, Conning tower: 2.00" / 51 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 3 shafts, 24,000 shp / 17,903 Kw = 26.65 kts
   Range 6,000nm at 10.82 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 563 tons

Complement:
   199 - 259

Cost:
   £0.320 million / $1.282 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 106 tons, 3.6 %
   Armour: 328 tons, 11.2 %
      - Belts: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 36 tons, 1.2 %
      - Armour Deck: 284 tons, 9.6 %
      - Conning Tower: 9 tons, 0.3 %
   Machinery: 1,031 tons, 35.0 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 1,010 tons, 34.3 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 443 tons, 15.1 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 25 tons, 0.8 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     1,465 lbs / 665 Kg = 13.6 x 6.0 " / 152 mm shells or 0.5 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.09
   Metacentric height 1.2 ft / 0.4 m
   Roll period: 13.3 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.97
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.11

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has raised forecastle, raised quarterdeck
   Block coefficient: 0.495
   Length to Beam Ratio: 10.00 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 18.44 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 60 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 63
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      19.00 ft / 5.79 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   16.00 ft / 4.88 m (14.00 ft / 4.27 m aft of break)
      - Mid (50 %):      12.00 ft / 3.66 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   13.00 ft / 3.96 m (12.00 ft / 3.66 m before break)
      - Stern:      14.00 ft / 4.27 m
      - Average freeboard:   13.57 ft / 4.13 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 141.8 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 91.5 %
   Waterplane Area: 7,667 Square feet or 712 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 87 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 65 lbs/sq ft or 317 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.89
      - Longitudinal: 2.69
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

[P3D]

Paraphrasing Borys, "Too many guns on a too small ship". Armor is still inferior.

[Carthaginian]

Paraphrasing Borys, "Too many guns on a too small ship". Armor is still inferior.

No problem with changing it. :)
I can lighten things up a little bit as far as armament...

Is it to many heavy guns, or too many guns, period?
I can see where the 6" guns would be too much for interior space, but the 25-pounders don't take up much internal space- just enough for the magazine.

[P3D]

SS30b calculates mount weight better. It gives you 0.92 hull strength, and would allow for only 5x6" guns on a bit bigger displacement.

[Carthaginian]

OK... didn't realize that I was abusing a bug.
I'll play around with it a bit tomorrow.

Still the basic concept is going to remain the same: small, inexpensive, easily constructed.

[Ithekro]

Maybe remove two of the side guns and than either center the remaining two between the stacks, or set them up so you can cross deck fire them for the same four guns per broadside feel.

[Desertfox]

Place one of the 6" guns superfiring aft, while removing the other one and 2x4". And give her some torpedoes, she definately needs them.

[Carthaginian]

How about this?



Patomic, Confederate States of America Frigate laid down 1908 (Engine 1909)

Displacement:
   2,500 t light; 2,620 t standard; 2,932 t normal; 3,182 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   340.00 ft / 340.00 ft x 34.00 ft x 18.00 ft (normal load)
   103.63 m / 103.63 m x 10.36 m  x 5.49 m

Armament:
      3 - 6.00" / 152 mm guns in single mounts, 100.00lbs / 45.36kg shells, 1908 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on centreline ends, majority aft, 1 raised mount aft
      2 - 6.00" / 152 mm guns in single mounts, 100.00lbs / 45.36kg shells, 1908 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, all amidships
      6 - 4.00" / 102 mm guns in single mounts, 25.00lbs / 11.34kg shells, 1908 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
      8 - 1.00" / 25.4 mm guns in single mounts, 0.50lbs / 0.23kg shells, 1908 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 654 lbs / 297 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 150
   4 - 19.5" / 495.3 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   1.00" / 25 mm         -         2.00" / 51 mm
   2nd:   1.00" / 25 mm         -         2.00" / 51 mm
   3rd:   1.00" / 25 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 2.00" / 51 mm, Conning tower: 2.00" / 51 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 3 shafts, 24,000 shp / 17,904 Kw = 26.67 kts
   Range 6,000nm at 10.83 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 562 tons

Complement:
   198 - 258

Cost:
   £0.311 million / $1.242 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 92 tons, 3.1 %
   Armour: 326 tons, 11.1 %
      - Belts: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 34 tons, 1.2 %
      - Armour Deck: 283 tons, 9.7 %
      - Conning Tower: 9 tons, 0.3 %
   Machinery: 1,041 tons, 35.5 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 1,001 tons, 34.2 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 432 tons, 14.7 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 40 tons, 1.4 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     1,478 lbs / 671 Kg = 13.7 x 6.0 " / 152 mm shells or 0.5 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.06
   Metacentric height 1.1 ft / 0.3 m
   Roll period: 13.5 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.88
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.11

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has raised forecastle, raised quarterdeck
   Block coefficient: 0.493
   Length to Beam Ratio: 10.00 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 18.44 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 60 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 63
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      19.00 ft / 5.79 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   16.00 ft / 4.88 m (14.00 ft / 4.27 m aft of break)
      - Mid (50 %):      12.00 ft / 3.66 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   13.00 ft / 3.96 m (12.00 ft / 3.66 m before break)
      - Stern:      14.00 ft / 4.27 m
      - Average freeboard:   13.57 ft / 4.13 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 140.5 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 72.9 %
   Waterplane Area: 7,655 Square feet or 711 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 89 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 64 lbs/sq ft or 315 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.90
      - Longitudinal: 2.69
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is cramped
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

[The Rock Doctor]

I'd agree with comments that the ship has too many weapons for its size - this is smaller than a WW2 destroyer, and has far more guns.

I'm not really sure what the four-inchers add:  the six-inchers are a good armament for the size of the ship, and the weight saving from removing the four-inchers (which oughta be superfiring, incidently) could be used for additional protection or range.

[Carthaginian]

Sorry about them not being superfiring, that's a correctable mistake.
The reason they are there is that torpedo boats and destroyers are getting larger... very quickly. the 6-pounder gun is no longer an adequate defense against such ships. Since the Confederacy lacks a 12-15-pounder gun, the25 was used.

[swamphen]

I'd reccomend deleting the midships 6"...perhaps replacing them with additional 4"? Or pehaps making the fo'c'stle gun a set of side-by-side mounts?

Also noticed the funnels are thinner on version 2.0.

Nits aside, I like 'em. :)

[Carthaginian]

I might delete the to midships 100-pounders like you say, and replace them with a lot of 25-pounders (4"), or maybe rearm the whole thing with 50-pounders (4.5").

I'm getting into a trunked funnel mood.
Look out Japan!

[Carthaginian]

I re-vamped the Patomic, loosing all but a pair of the 100-pounders, and replacing everything else with 25-pounders. She's able to make 27 knots and carries a 10-ton Marconi... perfect for patrolling the coasts or working in anti-destroyer roles.

Will get a pic up soon if the design is good.

Patomic, Confederate States of America Frigate laid down 1908 (Engine 1909)

Displacement:
   2,500 t light; 2,604 t standard; 2,917 t normal; 3,167 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   350.00 ft / 350.00 ft x 35.00 ft x 18.50 ft (normal load)
   106.68 m / 106.68 m x 10.67 m  x 5.64 m

Armament:
      2 - 6.00" / 152 mm guns in single mounts, 100.00lbs / 45.36kg shells, 1908 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on centreline ends, evenly spread
      8 - 4.00" / 102 mm guns in single mounts, 25.00lbs / 11.34kg shells, 1908 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, 4 raised mounts
      8 - 1.00" / 25.4 mm guns in single mounts, 0.50lbs / 0.23kg shells, 1908 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, 6 raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 404 lbs / 183 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 180
   4 - 19.5" / 495.3 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   2.00" / 51 mm   320.00 ft / 97.54 m   9.00 ft / 2.74 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 141 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   1.00" / 25 mm         -         2.00" / 51 mm
   2nd:   1.00" / 25 mm         -               -
   3rd:   0.50" / 13 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 1.00" / 25 mm, Conning tower: 2.00" / 51 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 3 shafts, 24,000 shp / 17,904 Kw = 26.90 kts
   Range 6,000nm at 10.80 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 563 tons

Complement:
   197 - 257

Cost:
   £0.287 million / $1.147 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 60 tons, 2.0 %
   Armour: 406 tons, 13.9 %
      - Belts: 227 tons, 7.8 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 26 tons, 0.9 %
      - Armour Deck: 145 tons, 5.0 %
      - Conning Tower: 9 tons, 0.3 %
   Machinery: 1,067 tons, 36.6 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 954 tons, 32.7 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 417 tons, 14.3 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 14 tons, 0.5 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     1,716 lbs / 778 Kg = 15.9 x 6.0 " / 152 mm shells or 0.5 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.20
   Metacentric height 1.5 ft / 0.4 m
   Roll period: 12.2 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.37
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.23

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has raised forecastle, raised quarterdeck
   Block coefficient: 0.451
   Length to Beam Ratio: 10.00 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 18.71 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 58 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 57
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      19.00 ft / 5.79 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   16.00 ft / 4.88 m (14.00 ft / 4.27 m aft of break)
      - Mid (50 %):      12.00 ft / 3.66 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   13.00 ft / 3.96 m (12.00 ft / 3.66 m before break)
      - Stern:      14.00 ft / 4.27 m
      - Average freeboard:   13.57 ft / 4.13 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 134.9 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 75.9 %
   Waterplane Area: 7,817 Square feet or 726 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 95 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 60 lbs/sq ft or 295 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.91
      - Longitudinal: 2.57
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is cramped
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily