Habsburg Battleship for the Parana Station

Borys · July 19, 2007, 02:41:18 PM

Ahoj!
Midships turets in echelon

SMS Semana Santa, Habsburg Empire Schlachtschiff laid down 1909

Displacement:
   25 379 t light; 26 878 t standard; 28 521 t normal; 29 835 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   660,00 ft / 660,00 ft x 89,00 ft x 29,00 ft (normal load)
   201,17 m / 201,17 m x 27,13 m x 8,84 m

Armament:
10 - 12,00" / 305 mm guns (5x2 guns), 900,00lbs / 408,23kg shells, 1909 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, majority aft, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
4 - 12,00" / 305 mm guns (2x2 guns), 900,00lbs / 408,23kg shells, 1909 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on side, all amidships
16 - 6,00" / 152 mm guns in single mounts, 108,00lbs / 48,99kg shells, 1909 Model
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts
     on side, evenly spread
16 - 3,00" / 76,2 mm guns in single mounts, 13,50lbs / 6,12kg shells, 1909 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
8 - 0,43" / 11,0 mm guns in single mounts, 0,04lbs / 0,02kg shells, 1909 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 14 544 lbs / 6 597 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 110
   4 - 20,0" / 508 mm submerged torpedo tubes

Armour:
- Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   13,0" / 330 mm   430,00 ft / 131,06 m   14,00 ft / 4,27 m
   Ends:   4,00" / 102 mm   215,00 ft / 65,53 m   12,00 ft / 3,66 m
     15,00 ft / 4,57 m Unarmoured ends
   Upper:   8,00" / 203 mm   430,00 ft / 131,06 m   8,00 ft / 2,44 m
     Main Belt covers 100% of normal length

- Torpedo Bulkhead:
      1,50" / 38 mm   415,00 ft / 126,49 m   46,00 ft / 14,02 m

- Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   12,0" / 305 mm   6,00" / 152 mm      10,0" / 254 mm
   2nd:   6,00" / 152 mm     -         2,00" / 51 mm
   3rd:   0,50" / 13 mm     -           -

- Armour deck: 2,00" / 51 mm, Conning tower: 11,00" / 279 mm

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 4 shafts, 45 518 shp / 33 956 Kw = 23,00 kts
   Range 6 500nm at 10,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 2 956 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   1 096 - 1 426

Cost:
   £2,681 million / $10,724 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1 755 tons, 6,2%
   Armour: 10 082 tons, 35,3%
     - Belts: 4 931 tons, 17,3%
     - Torpedo bulkhead: 1 059 tons, 3,7%
     - Armament: 2 301 tons, 8,1%
     - Armour Deck: 1 569 tons, 5,5%
     - Conning Tower: 221 tons, 0,8%
   Machinery: 2 276 tons, 8,0%
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 10 866 tons, 38,1%
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 3 142 tons, 11,0%
   Miscellaneous weights: 400 tons, 1,4%

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     33 662 lbs / 15 269 Kg = 39,0 x 12,0 " / 305 mm shells or 5,4 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,04
   Metacentric height 4,6 ft / 1,4 m
   Roll period: 17,5 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,90
   Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,34

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0,586
   Length to Beam Ratio: 7,42 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 25,69 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 43 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 52
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
     - Stem:      28,43 ft / 8,67 m
     - Forecastle (35%):   18,09 ft / 5,51 m
     - Mid (50%):      18,09 ft / 5,51 m
     - Quarterdeck (15%):   18,09 ft / 5,51 m
     - Stern:      18,09 ft / 5,51 m
     - Average freeboard:   19,54 ft / 5,96 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 98,7%
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 133,3%
   Waterplane Area: 42 402 Square feet or 3 939 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 98%
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 180 lbs/sq ft or 879 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,97
      - Longitudinal: 1,29
      - Overall: 1,00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

Carthaginian · July 19, 2007, 02:50:47 PM

*gasp*
*faint*
*die*

The Confederate Envoy is speechless, apparently.

I like the echelon turrets... they add flavor.
A really nice turret farm- makes the Agincourt look kinda mild by comparison.

Borys · July 19, 2007, 02:57:09 PM

Ahoj!
It is a bit of a joke, acutally ... the name means "Holy Week" in Portuguese, a name I deemed appropriate for that station, and caling for a seven turret ship. The echeloned turrets are due to the fact that the KuKK has not yet come around to accept the all-centerline concept.
I should refine the design to improve stability.
And built a slip capable of building that :D

Borys

P3D · July 19, 2007, 03:02:59 PM

Someone is intend to have the largest (longest) battleship on water.

Could have deeper draught, excessive misc weight, bit too long, bad stability, coal-firing while Austria can get oil more easily than good-quality coal (save perhaps the Brazilian colony). And definitely needs a drawing to see how all the turrets and the armored coverage fits in.
Barbette armor is inadequate - your gunnery experts can testify.

Borys · July 19, 2007, 03:10:56 PM

Ahoj!
Corrected design, like armouring the amidships turrets :)
Drawing:
http://www.bobhenneman.info/forum/viewtopic.php?t=559&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=30
Scroll to bottom
ADDED LATER:
Seems that I can dispense with superfiring turret ...

And yes, she is to burn Santa Katarina coal.

Now, all tremble before the CHUNKY!

SMS Semana Santa 2, Habsburg Empire Schlachtschiff laid down 1909

Displacement:
   23 335 t light; 24 799 t standard; 26 306 t normal; 27 511 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   550,00 ft / 550,00 ft x 93,00 ft x 30,00 ft (normal load)
   167,64 m / 167,64 m x 28,35 m x 9,14 m

Armament:
6 - 12,00" / 305 mm guns (3x2 guns), 900,00lbs / 408,23kg shells, 1909 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, majority aft, 1 raised mount aft - superfiring
8 - 12,00" / 305 mm guns (4x2 guns), 900,00lbs / 408,23kg shells, 1909 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on side, all amidships
16 - 6,00" / 152 mm guns in single mounts, 100,00lbs / 45,36kg shells, 1909 Model
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts
     on side, evenly spread
16 - 3,00" / 76,2 mm guns in single mounts, 13,00lbs / 5,90kg shells, 1909 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
8 - 0,43" / 11,0 mm guns in single mounts, 0,04lbs / 0,02kg shells, 1909 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 14 408 lbs / 6 536 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 110
   4 - 20,0" / 508 mm submerged torpedo tubes

Armour:
- Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   12,0" / 305 mm   400,00 ft / 121,92 m   14,00 ft / 4,27 m
   Ends:   4,00" / 102 mm   150,00 ft / 45,72 m   12,00 ft / 3,66 m
   Upper:   8,00" / 203 mm   400,00 ft / 121,92 m   8,00 ft / 2,44 m
     Main Belt covers 112% of normal length

- Torpedo Bulkhead:
      1,50" / 38 mm   400,00 ft / 121,92 m   46,00 ft / 14,02 m

- Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   11,0" / 279 mm   6,00" / 152 mm      10,0" / 254 mm
   2nd:   11,0" / 279 mm   6,00" / 152 mm      10,0" / 254 mm
   3rd:   4,00" / 102 mm     -           -

- Armour deck: 2,00" / 51 mm, Conning tower: 11,00" / 279 mm

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 4 shafts, 33 001 shp / 24 619 Kw = 21,00 kts
   Range 6 500nm at 10,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 2 713 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   1 032 - 1 342

Cost:
   £2,522 million / $10,088 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1 755 tons, 6,7%
   Armour: 9 837 tons, 37,4%
     - Belts: 4 252 tons, 16,2%
     - Torpedo bulkhead: 1 021 tons, 3,9%
     - Armament: 2 970 tons, 11,3%
     - Armour Deck: 1 384 tons, 5,3%
     - Conning Tower: 210 tons, 0,8%
   Machinery: 1 650 tons, 6,3%
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 9 692 tons, 36,8%
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2 971 tons, 11,3%
   Miscellaneous weights: 400 tons, 1,5%

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     32 001 lbs / 14 515 Kg = 37,0 x 12,0 " / 305 mm shells or 5,5 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,07
   Metacentric height 5,1 ft / 1,6 m
   Roll period: 17,2 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,77
   Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,52

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0,600
   Length to Beam Ratio: 5,91 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 23,45 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 47 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 46
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
     - Stem:      28,43 ft / 8,67 m
     - Forecastle (35%):   19,00 ft / 5,79 m
     - Mid (50%):      19,00 ft / 5,79 m
     - Quarterdeck (15%):   19,00 ft / 5,79 m
     - Stern:      19,00 ft / 5,79 m
     - Average freeboard:   20,32 ft / 6,19 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 96,0%
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 131,2%
   Waterplane Area: 37 410 Square feet or 3 476 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 95%
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 183 lbs/sq ft or 895 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,93
      - Longitudinal: 1,92
      - Overall: 1,00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

Borys · July 19, 2007, 03:16:50 PM

No superfiring:
SMS Semana Santa, Habsburg Empire Schlachtschiff laid down 1909

Displacement:
   23 335 t light; 24 799 t standard; 26 306 t normal; 27 511 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   550,00 ft / 550,00 ft x 93,00 ft x 30,00 ft (normal load)
   167,64 m / 167,64 m x 28,35 m x 9,14 m

Armament:
6 - 12,00" / 305 mm guns (3x2 guns), 900,00lbs / 408,23kg shells, 1909 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline, evenly spread
     Aft Main mounts separated by engine room
8 - 12,00" / 305 mm guns (4x2 guns), 900,00lbs / 408,23kg shells, 1909 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on side, all amidships
16 - 6,00" / 152 mm guns in single mounts, 100,00lbs / 45,36kg shells, 1909 Model
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts
     on side, evenly spread
     16 guns in hull casemates - Limited use in heavy seas
16 - 3,00" / 76,2 mm guns in single mounts, 13,00lbs / 5,90kg shells, 1909 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, 8 raised mounts
     8 guns in hull casemates - Limited use in heavy seas
8 - 0,43" / 11,0 mm guns in single mounts, 0,04lbs / 0,02kg shells, 1909 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 14 408 lbs / 6 536 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 110
   4 - 20,0" / 508 mm submerged torpedo tubes

Armour:
- Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   12,0" / 305 mm   400,00 ft / 121,92 m   14,00 ft / 4,27 m
   Ends:   4,00" / 102 mm   150,00 ft / 45,72 m   12,00 ft / 3,66 m
   Upper:   8,00" / 203 mm   400,00 ft / 121,92 m   8,00 ft / 2,44 m
     Main Belt covers 112% of normal length

- Torpedo Bulkhead:
      1,50" / 38 mm   400,00 ft / 121,92 m   46,00 ft / 14,02 m

- Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   11,0" / 279 mm   6,00" / 152 mm      11,0" / 279 mm
   2nd:   11,0" / 279 mm   6,00" / 152 mm      11,0" / 279 mm
   3rd:   4,00" / 102 mm     -           -

- Armour deck: 2,00" / 51 mm, Conning tower: 11,00" / 279 mm

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 4 shafts, 33 001 shp / 24 619 Kw = 21,00 kts
   Range 6 500nm at 10,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 2 713 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   1 032 - 1 342

Cost:
   £2,522 million / $10,088 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1 755 tons, 6,7%
   Armour: 9 932 tons, 37,8%
     - Belts: 4 254 tons, 16,2%
     - Torpedo bulkhead: 1 021 tons, 3,9%
     - Armament: 3 064 tons, 11,6%
     - Armour Deck: 1 384 tons, 5,3%
     - Conning Tower: 210 tons, 0,8%
   Machinery: 1 650 tons, 6,3%
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 9 597 tons, 36,5%
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2 971 tons, 11,3%
   Miscellaneous weights: 400 tons, 1,5%

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     32 425 lbs / 14 708 Kg = 37,5 x 12,0 " / 305 mm shells or 5,5 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,10
   Metacentric height 5,4 ft / 1,6 m
   Roll period: 16,9 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,71
   Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,53

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0,600
   Length to Beam Ratio: 5,91 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 23,45 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 47 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 46
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
     - Stem:      28,43 ft / 8,67 m
     - Forecastle (35%):   19,00 ft / 5,79 m
     - Mid (50%):      19,00 ft / 5,79 m
     - Quarterdeck (15%):   19,00 ft / 5,79 m
     - Stern:      19,00 ft / 5,79 m
     - Average freeboard:   20,32 ft / 6,19 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 96,0%
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 131,2%
   Waterplane Area: 37 410 Square feet or 3 476 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 95%
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 181 lbs/sq ft or 886 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,94
      - Longitudinal: 1,91
      - Overall: 1,01
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

Korpen · July 19, 2007, 03:38:08 PM

Quote from: Borys on July 19, 2007, 03:16:50 PM
No superfiring:
SMS Semana Santa, Habsburg Empire Schlachtschiff laid down 1909

Not a bad ship, but a bit large for a broadside of only 4080kg. Yes I do consider her to be undergunned...

Barbarett armour is fine, if anything it could be reduced as there are no exposed barbarettes, so to hit the barbarette most shells will have to penetrate the upper belt first.

P3D · July 19, 2007, 03:43:41 PM

Freeboard is 5.8m. Total belt depth is 6.7m. There is a ~0.5-1m gap where the thinner barbette is exposed (or the underwater below WL hull, take your pick). Nevermind the superfiring variants. and the 11" turret face armor.

Borys · July 19, 2007, 03:54:06 PM

Better?
SMS Semana Santa 3a, Habsburg Empire Schlachtschiff laid down 1909

Displacement:
   24 136 t light; 25 616 t standard; 27 154 t normal; 28 385 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   550,00 ft / 550,00 ft x 96,00 ft x 30,00 ft (normal load)
   167,64 m / 167,64 m x 29,26 m x 9,14 m

Armament:
6 - 12,00" / 305 mm guns (3x2 guns), 900,00lbs / 408,23kg shells, 1909 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline, evenly spread
     Aft Main mounts separated by engine room
8 - 12,00" / 305 mm guns (4x2 guns), 900,00lbs / 408,23kg shells, 1909 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on side, all amidships
16 - 6,00" / 152 mm guns in single mounts, 100,00lbs / 45,36kg shells, 1909 Model
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts
     on side, evenly spread
     16 guns in hull casemates - Limited use in heavy seas
16 - 3,00" / 76,2 mm guns in single mounts, 13,00lbs / 5,90kg shells, 1909 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, 8 raised mounts
     8 guns in hull casemates - Limited use in heavy seas
8 - 0,43" / 11,0 mm guns in single mounts, 0,04lbs / 0,02kg shells, 1909 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 14 408 lbs / 6 536 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 110
   4 - 20,0" / 508 mm submerged torpedo tubes

Armour:
- Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   12,0" / 305 mm   400,00 ft / 121,92 m   17,00 ft / 5,18 m
   Ends:   4,00" / 102 mm   150,00 ft / 45,72 m   12,00 ft / 3,66 m
   Upper:   8,00" / 203 mm   400,00 ft / 121,92 m   8,00 ft / 2,44 m
     Main Belt covers 112% of normal length

- Torpedo Bulkhead:
      1,50" / 38 mm   400,00 ft / 121,92 m   46,00 ft / 14,02 m

- Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   11,0" / 279 mm   6,00" / 152 mm      11,0" / 279 mm
   2nd:   11,0" / 279 mm   6,00" / 152 mm      11,0" / 279 mm
   3rd:   4,00" / 102 mm     -           -

- Armour deck: 2,00" / 51 mm, Conning tower: 11,00" / 279 mm

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 4 shafts, 33 794 shp / 25 211 Kw = 21,00 kts
   Range 6 500nm at 10,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 2 768 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   1 056 - 1 374

Cost:
   £2,556 million / $10,222 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1 755 tons, 6,5%
   Armour: 10 594 tons, 39,0%
     - Belts: 4 885 tons, 18,0%
     - Torpedo bulkhead: 1 021 tons, 3,8%
     - Armament: 3 045 tons, 11,2%
     - Armour Deck: 1 429 tons, 5,3%
     - Conning Tower: 214 tons, 0,8%
   Machinery: 1 690 tons, 6,2%
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 9 697 tons, 35,7%
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 3 019 tons, 11,1%
   Miscellaneous weights: 400 tons, 1,5%

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     34 585 lbs / 15 687 Kg = 40,0 x 12,0 " / 305 mm shells or 6,0 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,13
   Metacentric height 5,9 ft / 1,8 m
   Roll period: 16,6 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,61
   Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,51

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0,600
   Length to Beam Ratio: 5,73 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 23,45 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 47 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 46
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
     - Stem:      27,00 ft / 8,23 m
     - Forecastle (35%):   18,80 ft / 5,73 m
     - Mid (50%):      18,80 ft / 5,73 m
     - Quarterdeck (15%):   18,80 ft / 5,73 m
     - Stern:      18,80 ft / 5,73 m
     - Average freeboard:   19,95 ft / 6,08 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 92,8%
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 131,0%
   Waterplane Area: 38 617 Square feet or 3 588 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 96%
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 181 lbs/sq ft or 882 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,93
      - Longitudinal: 1,87
      - Overall: 1,00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

P3D · July 19, 2007, 04:40:48 PM

Yes, better. I still find turret faces and sides thin for a battleship. Turret face should be thicker than the belt armor, as it should face the enemy, while belt usually have some non-normal target angle. And turret face does not cost too much.

And I also think Paraná does not worth a battleship itself, especially when the homefleet is a floating museum. If Turkey and/or Italy gets into a war with Austria, the whole Adriatic would be open (I won't count on French guarantee).

swamphen · July 19, 2007, 05:33:20 PM

Y'know, just the other day I was thinking that somebody just had to build Agincourt... ;D

A number of historical battleships in this time period had armour in the 9"-12" range, so I would say that while the armour is light, it isn't wholly unreasonable.

Also 400t misc isn't at all excessive - the designs I'm working on have 375t and I'm still having to leave stuff out.

As for wherefore are thou, modern battleship?, the Adriatic can be defended as it was historically - a Beehive Defense. Mines and torpedobooten, schlachtschiffen keep out on pain of underwater damage! Brazil, OTOH...

Desertfox · July 19, 2007, 05:39:12 PM

Don't worry Swampy, Agincourt will be built...

P3D · July 19, 2007, 06:02:26 PM

Swamphen,

The Adriatic could not have been defended without the 7 modern Austrian battleships. If there's no Austrian Battleline, the Entente could just land the Gallipoli force in Serbia. Mines and Submarines can only do so much. France and UK might lose a few predreadnoughts and ACs (the same ones lost at Gallipoli+torpedoed in the Adriatic), but Serbia would stay in the war. And Austria collapses when it cannot reinforce the Italian Front, while the coastal defence ships cannot do their essential coastal bombardment to delay Italian troop movements along the coast. Italy is in Fiume by 1916, No Goerlitz-Tarnow, Central powers suing for peace.