Torpedo Frigate... and more (for 08/09)

[The Rock Doctor]

Why a cruising speed of 10.31 knots?

[Carthaginian]

P3D:
I'll play with the barbettes and upper belt to try and get the best balance and most survivability, if that is the case.

Korpen:
That's the very problem I have. I don't have a modern 12" gun; my most advanced 12" gun is a 12"/35 caliber... not nearly enough for modern warfare. It's either a 9.2" or a 13.5", and that's way too heavy for a ship this small.

Rock:
The cruising speed is not based on 'speed'- it's based on engine horsepower. I went for an even 2000shp produced at cruise (500shp per engine). After all, the engine designers wouldn't know exactly what speed a given HP rating would produce till the ship was in the water.

[Korpen]

Korpen:
That's the very problem I have. I don't have a modern 12" gun; my most advanced 12" gun is a 12"/35 caliber... not nearly enough for modern warfare. It's either a 9.2" or a 13.5", and that's way too heavy for a ship this small.

Well, just 1000tons more and you could have eight 13,5 guns.  ;D

Yes, I like to stuff as many heavy guns as possible on my designs.

Enter ship name, Enter country Enter ship type laid down 1909

Displacement:
   14 000 t light; 15 204 t standard; 16 335 t normal; 17 240 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   524,93 ft / 524,93 ft x 75,46 ft x 26,90 ft (normal load)
   160,00 m / 160,00 m x 23,00 m  x 8,20 m

Armament:
      8 - 13,50" / 343 mm guns (4x2 guns), 1 230,19lbs / 558,00kg shells, 1909 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline, evenly spread, 1 raised mount
     Aft Main mounts separated by engine room
      16 - 4,49" / 114 mm guns in single mounts, 50,00lbs / 22,68kg shells, 1909 Model
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts
     on side, all amidships
   Weight of broadside 10 642 lbs / 4 827 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 146

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   7,09" / 180 mm   362,53 ft / 110,50 m   13,12 ft / 4,00 m
   Ends:   1,57" / 40 mm   160,76 ft / 49,00 m   9,84 ft / 3,00 m
     1,64 ft / 0,50 m Unarmoured ends
   Upper:   1,57" / 40 mm   328,08 ft / 100,00 m   7,87 ft / 2,40 m
     Main Belt covers 106 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   7,09" / 180 mm   3,94" / 100 mm      5,91" / 150 mm

   - Armour deck: 1,85" / 47 mm, Conning tower: 5,91" / 150 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 4 shafts, 48 000 shp / 35 808 Kw = 25,08 kts
   Range 6 160nm at 12,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 2 035 tons

Complement:
   722 - 939

Cost:
   £1,905 million / $7,619 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1 321 tons, 8,1 %
   Armour: 3 745 tons, 22,9 %
      - Belts: 1 707 tons, 10,4 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0,0 %
      - Armament: 1 022 tons, 6,3 %
      - Armour Deck: 934 tons, 5,7 %
      - Conning Tower: 82 tons, 0,5 %
   Machinery: 2 182 tons, 13,4 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 6 653 tons, 40,7 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2 335 tons, 14,3 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 100 tons, 0,6 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     13 178 lbs / 5 977 Kg = 10,7 x 13,5 " / 343 mm shells or 1,7 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,07
   Metacentric height 3,7 ft / 1,1 m
   Roll period: 16,4 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 51 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,98
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1,01

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0,537
   Length to Beam Ratio: 6,96 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 22,91 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 53 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      25,20 ft / 7,68 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   16,04 ft / 4,89 m
      - Mid (50 %):      16,04 ft / 4,89 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   16,04 ft / 4,89 m
      - Stern:      16,04 ft / 4,89 m
      - Average freeboard:   16,78 ft / 5,11 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 106,2 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 115,5 %
   Waterplane Area: 27 297 Square feet or 2 536 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 87 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 165 lbs/sq ft or 807 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,93
      - Longitudinal: 1,79
      - Overall: 1,00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate

[Carthaginian]

It's not the tonnage... it's the money that's the ticklish part. ;)
I gotta pay for the sucker completely at laydown; and I don't have nearly the population that I should in my country, therefore I have almost no money available. This is supposed to be a cheaper ship than my Nuevo Leon battleship- the one that you're suggesting is actually $1.50+ more expensive!

[Korpen]

It's not the tonnage... it's the money that's the ticklish part. ;)
I gotta pay for the sucker completely at laydown; and I don't have nearly the population that I should in my country, therefore I have almost no money available. This is supposed to be a cheaper ship than my Nuevo Leon battleship- the one that you're suggesting is actually $1.50+ more expensive!

Ah, that explains a bit. ;)
But I am in fact questioning the intended purpose of the original ship, as it is a bit over gunned to shoot up light & protected cruisers, while it is inferior to similar sized ships that carries larger guns.

Sure, it is superior in all-round performance to older armoured cruisers, but it really should be able to compete with more modern ships.

[Carthaginian]

Ah, that explains a bit. ;)
But I am in fact questioning the intended purpose of the original ship, as it is a bit over gunned to shoot up light & protected cruisers, while it is inferior to similar sized ships that carries larger guns.

Sure, it is superior in all-round performance to older armoured cruisers, but it really should be able to compete with more modern ships.

It's inferior because it was mistakenly conceived. The CSN believed that all 'battle cruisers' would be built more as large cruisers than small battleships. Thus, it's markedly superior to the ships that it was intended to kill, but markedly inferior to ships that were not expected at the time of it's conception.

Think of it less as a counter to other battle cruisers and more as the first real heavy cruiser, and you'll see where the ship's design is going.

[Ithekro]

Well at this point in time, the "Battlecruiser" is not yet proven for anything yet.  I don't think any real ones are to sea at this point aside from some of the "faster" battleships, and the Swiss and Firanji Super Cruisers.  It there are any others, they haven't seen combat yet.

Rohan would be worried about the new Confederate ACs if Rohan and the Confederates were unfriendly, and if Rohan wasn't already building two Battlecruisers and a Combat Cruiser that is almost a match for this AC.

[swamphen]

Well at this point in time, the "Battlecruiser" is not yet proven for anything yet.  I don't think any real ones are to sea at this point aside from some of the "faster" battleships, and the Swiss and Firanji Super Cruisers.

*cough* Scharnhorst *cough*

[Carthaginian]

The Confederate States of America- ever innovative in it's search for simpler, cheaper ways to patrol it's vast areas of coastline- is announcing the conversion of the first airship tenders in the world. Devoted to servicing airships while at sea, these ships could extend the patrol range of an airship far beyond their normal ranges and allow them to patrol well out to sea. The ships are also equipped with a Marconi, to provide airships with weather reports and relay scouting reports back to shore.

The Tallahassee and Houston are to be converted to this configuration, or one similar to this, sometime by July of 1908.

Tallahassee, Confederate States of America Aviation Tender laid down 1891 (Engine 1909)

Displacement:
   1,685 t light; 1,731 t standard; 2,291 t normal; 2,739 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   320.00 ft / 320.00 ft x 40.00 ft x 12.00 ft (normal load)
   97.54 m / 97.54 m x 12.19 m  x 3.66 m

Armour:

   - Armour deck: 0.50" / 13 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 10,000 ihp / 7,460 Kw = 21.97 kts
   Range 6,000nm at 15.10 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1,008 tons

Complement:
   165 - 215

Cost:
   £0.157 million / $0.628 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 0 tons, 0.0 %
   Armour: 80 tons, 3.5 %
      - Belts: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armour Deck: 80 tons, 3.5 %
      - Conning Tower: 0 tons, 0.0 %
   Machinery: 699 tons, 30.5 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 745 tons, 32.5 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 606 tons, 26.4 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 160 tons, 7.0 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     2,766 lbs / 1,255 Kg = 25.6 x 6 " / 152 mm shells or 0.8 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.46
   Metacentric height 2.4 ft / 0.7 m
   Roll period: 10.8 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.00
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.23

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.522
   Length to Beam Ratio: 8.00 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 17.89 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 55 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 57
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      14.00 ft / 4.27 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   14.00 ft / 4.27 m
      - Mid (50 %):      14.00 ft / 4.27 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   6.00 ft / 1.83 m
      - Stern:      6.00 ft / 1.83 m
      - Average freeboard:   11.40 ft / 3.47 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 107.0 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 119.0 %
   Waterplane Area: 8,703 Square feet or 808 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 140 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 57 lbs/sq ft or 279 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.97
      - Longitudinal: 1.35
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

160 tons of Misc. Weight simulates the mooring mast, winches, cables, refueling hoses, pumps, hoists, and miscellaneous stores necessary to enable airships to dock with and refuel/reprovision from the ship, including 33,333 gallons of gasoline (100tons @ 6 lbs:1 gal).

[swamphen]

I'd keep at least some MGs, don't want to have a "hit me" sign up for all the pirates.  ;)

[P3D]

Will be tricky. You have a moving ship, belching out smoking clouds, and you want to tether a 600'+ long hydrogen-filled zeppelin to it.
Of course the airships will need the same amount of maintenance per flight hours, but I have no objections.

[Carthaginian]

I'd keep at least some MGs, don't want to have a "hit me" sign up for all the pirates.  ;)

These ships are simply going to be testbeds. As such, they are not expected to need any real forms of armaments...

ESPECIALLY since they are going to be tested solely within the Sea of Cortez (Gulf of California).
I double dog dare any pirates to try and enter what basically amounts to the Confederate equivalent of Scapa Flow. If the 6 subs and torpedo boat patrols don't get them at the entrance, then they'll have to deal with the escorts these ships will have along.

[Carthaginian]

Will be tricky. You have a moving ship, belching out smoking clouds, and you want to tether a 600'+ long hydrogen-filled zeppelin to it.
Of course the airships will need the same amount of maintenance per flight hours, but I have no objections.

The smoke isn't a really big problem if the ship is just making steerageway (2 knots or so) ... not much of it then. The ship is also oil-fired, so the smoke is a lot lighter than if it's coal fired. The airships will be maintenanced when they make landfall as necessary. They wouldn't attempt to call a 'resupply' stop at this ship a 'repair'... it's just a place to replenish consumables, nothing more.

This isn't the production model.
They are experiments... shoot, I want them to have some drawbacks.
It's not realistic if it works out the first time.

[maddox]

You want to tether a sail the size of several barns to puny ships?  That's going to be interesting.

But what will interest me the most, how will the hydrogen being made, stored and moved?

[Carthaginian]

You want to tether a sail the size of several barns to puny ships?  That's going to be interesting.

Which is why I'm picking the most sheltered body of water in Confederate possession short of Lake Ponchartrain to test them. :D Like I said... I want it to be flawed; it's not 'how can I do it right' at this stage, it's more like 'can it be done at all?'

But what will interest me the most, how will the hydrogen being made, stored and moved?

Hydrogen wouldn't be transfered with this particular ship.
Maybe next time... but this ship just doesn't have the room (or blast shielding) to mount the equipment for electrolyzing water. As it is, this ship just tops off the gas tank and cleans the windshield. It's not really a proper tender, just something that is there to see if a ship at sea and an airship can actually hook up at sea.