Population and GDP of the World in 1870

[Logi]

For the purposes of having a more realistic starting situation, I'm going to tabulate the population and GDP of the various main-line countries and their provinces. Once this is completed, perhaps it can be moved to the Knowledge Base section. These countries are:

Britain
France
Netherlands
Prussia
Italy
Austria
Ottoman Empire
Russia
Spain

China
Japan

Brazil
Mexico
USA

[KWorld]

Remember, Logi, that we are explicitly NOT using the historical GDPs, GDPs for sim use are being leveled to give everyone an equal start.

[Logi]

Britain		Pop	GDP
	England	31,400	100,180
	Ireland	5,419	9,619
	Australia	1,775	5,810
	New Zealand	291	902
	Canada	3,781	6,407
	Hong Kong	123	84
	Singapore	84	57
	Yemen	2,840	670
	Bombay	25,648	13,670
	Central Provinces	9,251	4,931
	Punjab	22,911	12,212
	Hyderbad	10,666	5,685
Total		114,169	160,227

Notes:
Indian states GDP are approximated by using Angus Maddson's GDP per capita figures.
Pop is in thousands, GDP is in millions

Sources:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_states_in_India_by_past_population
http://dev3.cepr.org/meets/wkcn/1/1747/papers/BroadberryGupta-Final.pdf
Historical Statistics of the World Economy by Angus Maddison

France		Pop	GDP
	France	38,440	72,100
	Algiers	3,776	2,700
	Cambodia	2,090	1,534
	French Guyana	14	21
Total		44,320	76,355

Sources:
Historical Statistics of the World Economy by Angus Maddison

Prussia		Pop	GDP
	North Germany	24,697	45,418
	Saxony	2,054	3,777
	Oldenburg	257	473
Total		27,008	49,668
	South Germany	9,000	16,551

Notes:
The South Germany section should be counted after the German unification (1871), but not before.

Sources:
http://cdnc.ucr.edu/cgi-bin/cdnc?a=d&d=SDU18700730.2.19#
Historical Statistics of the World Economy by Angus Maddison

Netherlands		Pop	GDP
	Netherlands	3,610	9,952
	Belgium	5,096	13,716
	Luxembourg	181	631
	Indonesia	32,743	18,929
	Sri Lanka	2,786	2,372
	South Africa	2,547	2,185
	Suriname	115	48
Total		47,078	47,833

Sources:
Historical Statistics of the World Economy by Angus Maddison

China		Pop	GDP
	China	358,000	189,740
	Taiwan	2,345	1,290
Total		360,345	191,030

Sources:
Historical Statistics of the World Economy by Angus Maddison

Japan		Pop	GDP
	Japan	34,437	25,393
Total		34,437	25,393
	South Korea	9,753	5,891
	North Korea	4,511	2,725
	Total	14,264	8,616

Notes:
Korea is added to Japan after the 1st Sino-Japanese War (1894)

Sources:
Historical Statistics of the World Economy by Angus Maddison

USA		Pop	GDP
	USA	40,241	98,374
Total	40,241	98,374
	Cuba	1,331	645
	Philippines	5,063	3,159

Notes:
Cuba and the Philippines is to be added after the Spanish-American War (1898)

Sources:
Historical Statistics of the World Economy by Angus Maddison

Italy		Pop	GDP
	Italy	27,888	41,814
Total		27,888	41,814

Sources:
Historical Statistics of the World Economy by Angus Maddison

Latin Minors

South America		Pop	GDP
	Argentina	1,796	2,354
	Brazil	9,797	6,985
	Chile	1,945	2,509
	Colombia	2,392	1,430
	Peru	2,606	1,138
	Uruguary	343	748
	Venezuela	1,653	941
Total		20,532	16,105
	Mexico	9,219	6,214

Sources:
Historical Statistics of the World Economy by Angus Maddison

Austria-Hungary		Pop	GDP
	Austria	4,520	8,419
	Hungary	5,917	6,459
	Czechoslovakia	10,155	11,820
	Yugosslavia	8,252	4,943
	Romania	9,179	8,546
	- Serbia	-3,598	-1,950
	- Macedonia	-620	-281
	- Romania Proper	-3,769	-3,640
	- Bosnia & Hez	-1,773	-  616
Total:		28,263	33,700

Sources:
Wikipedia Articles on Romania
Historical Statistics of the World Economy by Angus Maddison

Russia		Pop	GDP
	Russian Federation	50,336	48,232
	Lithuania	1,261	1,362
	Moldova	1,154	1,113
	Ukraine	18,160	13,166
	Belarus	3,813	2,672
	Estonia	541	675
	Latvia	956	1,050
Total		76,221	68,270
	USSR	88,672	83,646

Sources:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_regions_by_past_GDP_(PPP)  (Bairoch)
http://www.tacitus.nu/historical-atlas/population/russia.htm
Historical Statistics of the World Economy by Angus Maddison

Ottoman Empire		Pop	GDP
	Turkey	11,793	9,729
	Syria	1,582	1,335
	Iraq	1,580	1,136
	Palestine	429	322
	Lebanon	479	402
	Jordan	266	191
	Egypt	7,049	4,573
	Libya	383	184
	Tunisia	1,176	744
	Albania	603	269
	Bulgaria	2,586	2,172
	Serbia	3,598	1,950
	Macedonia	620	281
	Romania Proper	3,769	3,640
	Bosnia & Hez	1,773	616
Total:		37,686	27,544

Sources:
Historical Statistics of the World Economy by Angus Maddison
http://brookhavensouthhaven.org/history/wertheim/OttomanEmpire1798-1923.jpg

[Logi]

Remember, Logi, that we are explicitly NOT using the historical GDPs, GDPs for sim use are being leveled to give everyone an equal start.

I knew that and I understand the reasoning behind it. However, I do hope you do not intent to level the GDP extremely, for we might as well be playing risk at that point.

[KWorld]

Remember, Logi, that we are explicitly NOT using the historical GDPs, GDPs for sim use are being leveled to give everyone an equal start.

I knew that and I understand the reasoning behind it. However, I do hope you do not intent to level the GDP extremely, for we might as well be playing risk at that point.

We are explicitly NOT playing with historical economies, and the levelling could be considered fairly extreme, since the UK will not have a GDP twice that of France at start. 

[Logi]

I am not so much concerned by Historical GDP as Plausible GDP. If you are going to level the playing field to an extreme, you should also add/remove the territories the countries control. Else-wise, the sim becomes completely implausible and loses most of it's fun.

For example:
Britain loses complete control over the British Raj, Canada, Ireland, Australia, New Zealand (111,991)
Canada, Ireland, Australia, New Zealand become part of the British Commonwealth instead
Germany united (66,219)
Japan with Korea (34,009)

In this manner, you can adjust the GDP values later without it being an extreme and implausible situation, for example, ie:
USA: Adjust GDP down by 10% (total: 88,537)
Britain: England GDP decrease by 20% (total: 89,593)
Germany: Adjust GDP up by 10% (total: 72,841)
Italy: Adjust GDP up by 10% (total: 45,995)
Japan: Adjust GDP up by 20% (total: 40,811)
Ottoman Empire: Adjust GDP up by 20% (total: 33,053)

China (191,030) - Not lowered because it's an NPC and also historically about to split into many pieces
Russia (83,646)
France (76,355)
Netherlands (47,833)
Austria-Hungary (33,700)

This makes a nice division:
Major Powers:     70-90,000
Regional Powers: 33-48,000
Minor Powers:       0-  9,000

As long as the rate of return issue is resolved, I see no reason why regional powers cannot move into major power category and minor powers into regional powers.

I do believe you mean the same as I mention above, but your wording is somewhat misleading. It almost seems to imply, to me, an exact even start (US = UK = FRA = GER = JAP = ITA = etc.)

[KWorld]

When we discussed this before, the groups preference was for an exactly even start.  If people's opinions have changed, now IS the time to speak up, but that was the preference earlier this summer.

[Darman]

When we discussed this before, the groups preference was for an exactly even start.  If people's opinions have changed, now IS the time to speak up, but that was the preference earlier this summer.

Exactly even start is what I would like.  We aren't trying to precisely recreate history here, but create our own.  Besides, the British Empire might not stay the British Empire forever if England can't afford a home fleet and colonial defense fleets as well.  The RN is NOT the largest navy in the world in this timeline.  World peace hangs by a much more precarious thread than OTL

[KWorld]

Exactly even start is what I would like.  We aren't trying to precisely recreate history here, but create our own.  Besides, the British Empire might not stay the British Empire forever if England can't afford a home fleet and colonial defense fleets as well.  The RN is NOT the largest navy in the world in this timeline.  World peace hangs by a much more precarious thread than OTL

True: in this proposed universe, there are no superpowers.

[Darman]

Which should make things interesting.
I'm still playing around with my army figures (had to alter the figures to reflect the new cheaper cavalry units, which comes out to almost exactly enough to allowing me to establish the 1st Regiment, Royal Garrison Artillery)